Huge/Complex websites for (almost) free!?

kamy99

Hi all:

I am truly sick and tired of people contacting me, asking to do a huge/complex site ranging from converting 5000 images into thumbs, create/program databases,... to back-end app design, dynamic sites, complex programming ,...... and at the end tell me they only have a $500 budget.

How do you handle this kind of customers?

I usually just get rid of them!

sarahk

Get a "business" website giving an indication of past projects and the budgets for those projects and work the flow so that they have to have cruised past all that in order to get to your email address.

jeremuck

send them to me!

seriously...

bewest at siliconllama dot com

levi_501_dehaan

Hey, if you really want to get rid of them, send them to me too! 🙂
I mean hey, if jeremuck cant handle one, or is flooded with requests, then let me know. cuz i have alot of friends who could use some programming jobs, even if its for 500 bucks.
send the requests here:
levi_501_dehaan at yahoo dot com.
but first send them to jeremuck, i dont need any more money, but i wont refuse a friend a cheap job 🙂.
-=Levi=-

crisward

If they want to only pay you $500 explain to them that the budget is way too small. Try and get them up to $1000 then explain to them you would normally charge $3000-$4000 for site of this type, so you need as much co-operation from them as possible.

Then create an app with your $1000 that automates as much of the work as possible, and show them how to use it. A form which fills out a page via a database and a auto image converter via GD or image magik isn't that difficult. The 1st time you do this it might be a loss leader, but after that you can re-use your code.

If they want a bespoke website they'll have to pay for it. If they want to pay less they will have to make do with the inflexabilities of rehashed code and simple templates.

Cris

greg252

I don't even look at a site if the client isn't willing to spend $2,500

It's not greed, it's the simple fact that my time and skill is worth money. And, these clients are using us (the PHP community) to wrte attractive and functional web sites to generate income for themselves. If they turn into the next Amazon, we get no residual income. So we have to generate our income up-front.

As for hourly rates: a large site with multiple, complex scripts for $500? What will it take to write it, 6 days? A few days of design? Testing? ... 2 weeks minimum. I have to tell you, my time and skill is worth more than $6.25 per hour.

Yes, I agree, it's great to write functions that can be reused for other sites, but it seems that every site I have done, is custom.

Just don't sell yourself short.

kamy99

I definitely agree with greg!
Almost all the sites that I have worked on seemed custom-made. Yes, you do get to re-use some code, but even then you have to modify it.

What bothers me is that people want the latest technology on their site for practically free!

If I wanted to get $6 per/hour I'd deliver Pizza, at least that way I get some tips too! I went to College and University and have a huge debt to return to the government, with a lovely interest.

Here's a project I turned down:

Online grocery store, to begin with 400-500 items, more to be added later. Each with their own image(She didn't have a single image, so I had to scan each one. ), some weight-based (ie tomatoes), some boxed-based(ie Corn Flakes), shopping cart, back-end application to add/remove/update products, search engine, calculate deliveries, ...........

Her maximum budget: $1000 Canadian (but preferred 5/600).
I said No, thanx.
That was over 6 months ago. I know for a fact she hasn't been
able to get it off the ground!

Integrity.....................

crisward

Yeah, you're both right. I went to uni for a long time too and I understand exactly what you are saying. Skills should cost money.

I was just being open minded about finding a way of taking the money and giving them what they paid for ( ie not much when not much money )

Out of interest what are your daily rates?

Cris.

kamy99

I charge per project. People try to force me to give a per/hour rate, but I prefer per-project.
I have found that this is to everyone's benefit.

levi_501_dehaan

hmmm...
I can understand turning down really large sites, but when it comes down to it, there is always a way to create web sites really fast, even dynamic ones 🙂.
you just need a....template of sorts, when you get down to the nitty gritty most websites are pretty much the same thing, you break them into catagories 🙂.

I am (slowly) turning a program i have for generating php code based upon those diffrences, you need to only change a few things, and my database gets larger with every project, i figure it could be something to donate the opensource society.

but hey when it only takes you 15 minutes to get a framework built and then only about 5 hours to add the rest of the stuff you want, then 500 bucks is worth it.

you just have to be inventive 🙂. the way i see it (like most people here say) everyone wants a dynamic web page for cheap. the reason for this is the crappy economy now, and also because everyone thinks hey its the net, everyone says making a web page is easy, why cant it be easy to make it dynamic.
because, lets face it folks, most people are average or even stupid.

so why not make money off the stupid people, they are impressed with the simple, and hey so what if they want a bunch of somewhat complicated stuff (write a program to generate it based on certain criteria (easy solution for some)).

and i see this whole integrity thing getting you far 🙂, really i do 🙂, but the only thing is does integrity feed you?

most want quantity not quality, give them alot, make sure you make a big deal about how much it took you to make it so much. blah blah blah, and when you actually meet an intelegent person, charge them alot of money (because they know what they want). and usually the smart people can afford it.
i know i have an idiot when someone comes up to me and asks me to create a fully functional gambling web site with money management software built into ect..
but i've already built one before, and put the code into a database, hey, simple stuff, they are all the same to a point, then you subcontract an artist for way cheap at some place like rentacoder and there you go, 3g's for practically free.

this approach may seem unethical, but when you get down to it, its just like selling a pre packaged product that has been modified to user specs.

so i can see your point, but the thing is, if your getting a Bunch of people asking for that stuff, then figure out a way to get that money easy, cuz 500 bucks isnt anything to sniff at if your paying off a viper 😃 i know.

-=Lev=-

greg252

If you are trying to make a living at PHP, it's tough and "giving" code away is easy to justify because you have to pay the bills.

Ultimately, though, you are hurting yourself. You are driving down the value of all of our work.

If you have the confidence in yourself and the knowledge to back it up... don't ruin the market, get what you deserve and what is fair.

levi_501_dehaan

Hmmm..
what you say is true 🙂, but that was only a point of view thats all. I'm with ya'll Show Me the Money!.
Yeah, and it would suck to have to live off doing random jobs in programming especially in just one language.
Obviously not many people here have to do that because they have time to kill posting on boards 🙂.

Can you dance the funky chicken? cuz if you can, your a very..very..well we'll just say its kewl.
-=Levi=-