Sorry, but thats wrong, if I claim that I do not own the characters and that they are property of whoever then there will be no problem, if there was, there would be no buffy rpgs at all. So don't quote law to me =]

Newsflash, this isnt a production enviroment, its a community of web designers that help eachother out.

Read above for the bit what php has to do with the newbie forum, its for people that have problems implimenting something with php which isnt a programming language its a web programming language, there is a difference. The reason why it applies is because thats what will empower the website and its functionality.

    When a newbie asks about something that may infringe on someone else's copyright it is the responsibility of EVERY member, no matter what level of php expertise, to comment on the liabilities.

    SOMEONE does own the copyright to the character and concept of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and, as such, ANY unauthorized use of the name in any manner is a violation of this copyright.

    The only exception to this is the "Fair Use" clause in copyright law. And that says you can only use bits and pieces of the work when REVIEWING the work.

    This is NOT a programming issue, it is a legal issue and should be quashed immediately before you find yourself trying to swim upstream in a court of law against Fox's corporate lawyers.

      Well, I'm sorry but I don't think everyone who has started a buffy roleplay game on any type of PBeM group has asked Fox wether or not the characters can be used, the groups arent hard to find either, so they would have been in court by now if Fox felt it was worth pursuing.

      Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

        As you have no way of knowing whether or not I smoke a pipe, I can only assmume you were being disrespectful in a "nice" way.

        I am 54 years old, and from the tone of your posts in this thread, you are a lot younger (and less experienced in legal matters) than I am.

        I was simply attempting to advise you of the legal problems that might erupt should you follow this idea.

        If you choose not to heed my advice, there is nothing I can do about it.

        But there is no need to be offended what I have to say and no need to get personal in your response.

        😕

          I don't mean to be offensive either...but...what I've just said above still stands and I hate people that preach to me without getting all the facts first, thats all.

            ok asume that they won't law suit u right away.

            imagine ur game is up and running and going smoothly and very big.

            Then u will end up in court

            and u have to pay for all the time it ran when it wasn't so succesfull.

            So yes there might be other games, they are probaly small, and not used by to many people, so not much money is involved(or perhaps they do have permission). As soon something get's big and profitble, the vultures will smell and come and make sure u get naked.

              "I don't mean to be offensive either...but...what I've just said above still stands and I hate people that preach to me without getting all the facts first, thats all."

              I find it very interesting your use of the word "preach". That right there says a lot about your lack of open-mindness and maturity. Don't say you were not offensive when you pointed out that that another individual is on drugs. You didnt even consider thinking about this issue of copyright/trademark law and the affects it will have upon you and the individuals you solicit. I didnt' have to waste my time bothering to add to this discussion, but because your approach raised a flag and I have experience in this area, I decided to chime in to put a different perspective TO THINK ABOUT.

              People here in this community have a right to know what they are getting themselves into. After all, you initiated this thread soliciting members for development help. You had to expect feedback no matter if it is what you wanted to hear or not. Rather than take things for what they are, you chose to lash out and mock the very people who are trying to assist you. How smart is that?

              I am simply pointing out the problems you will face trying to create something having existing mass appeal that is copyrighted and trademarked. It's common sense to go out and hire a lawyer to find out more.

              Irregardless if your RPG is successful or not, Eden Studios (the developers for FOX's Buffy RPG) will have a say on that matter - namely their lawyers. Eden Studio's has EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to the Buffy RPG. That right cost them money to establish their line of business and whatever users you take away from them affects their profitability.

              Don't think what you are doing is a large effort? While you are at Eden's website, recognize that there are a number of talented lead developers, artists, and creative professionals, who are involved. Don't think FOX's staff approves and oversees the content to maintain integrity? It is business and people have rights to protect their self-interests.

              How smart would it be for Walt Disney to let everyone go out and create software based on Mickey Mouse in their own way. At some point, Mickey Mouse's image is destroyed. Do you think they want someone going out and creating software based on their characters performing behaivior out of the norm without their approval? How about Super Mario and Nintendo? Or Jim Henson's Sesame Street and Big Bird?

              These companies invest lots of money to promote, market, and sell their products. The last thing they want is their characters to be portrayed for something they are not. It is not your right to determine this - its THEIRS. There are laws protecting this interest and if you want to choose to ignore this, go ahead.

              What happens if your venture is successful? Are you the sole person who reaps all benefits from your "business"? What about all the other contributors who assisted you in your efforts? You cannot even answer that question can you because you haven't put on a business hat. You keep stressing that is not a business. But I strongly disagree. IT IS ABOUT BUSINESS. For anyone going to help you out, they have motivations too - their time.

              What will happen when word is out that your RPG is a good one? Surely Eden and Fox will be breathing down your throat with their lawyers forcing you to shut off your website. Your efforts and everyone else goes kapoof. Why would anyone want to head into this knowing thats a possibility? Its a waste of time, in my opinion.

              Why not start off trying to walk rather than run and build a generic RPG game engine first to prove concept.

              Good luck to you

              Kerry Kobashi
              Kobashi Computing

                oh for christ sake lol, pipes don't often contain drugs, and its a figure of speech dude.

                It isnt a 3d gaming engine its a web based interface to essentially a message board similiar to what this is with features tailored for basically play by email roleplaying.

                And just to point out to you how much work those lawyers would have had to do, and as far as I know, none of them have been contacted by such lawyers, here is all the roleplaying games I could find, I wont even try putting fanfic links up here,l they wouldnt all fit in the post;

                The below link is to yahoo groups with a list of buffy related stuff, I searched for "roleplaying buffy", some of those arent rpgs but you will get my point.

                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=roleplaying+buffy&sc=0&sg=0&ss=1

                Most of not all (theres 72 matches, and thats just with yahoo groups), my search for "buffy fanfiction" comes up with 312, most of those are doing things with the characters that maybe the creators wouldnt like, I dont see them suing the owners of the lists do you? Besides, Joss Weadon, the actual creator of the buffy characters has said himself he regularly when he finds the time reads some of that stuff to see what his fan base is doing with them, what they like, dislike. Theres even a 25 min movie out there called fluffy the english vampire slayer, on the internet, that basically takes bits out of a couple of buffy stories and does their own thing with it, again, they havent been sued.

                I'm sorry but I think if you do a little research instead of quoting law to me that you'll find I know what I'm talking about too.

                And also, it's not against the law to create a message board facility tailored for basically messaging, it will be a generic thing whereby anything can be used with it to roleplay, not just buffy, and so what the users do with it will come up to the question of legality, not what I do. Message boards have skins, to change the appearance, all that it will need for it to be a buffy roleplaying web game is an adaption of a skin, and people to use it.

                I'm not trying to be offensive, but you seem to know a bit about law, but absolutely nothing about the internet and its buffy fan presence.

                Take Care

                  "I'm not trying to be offensive, but you seem to know a bit about law, but absolutely nothing about the internet and its buffy fan presence"

                  I may not know alot about Buffy the Vampire (nor could give a hoot) but you obviously don't know much about how to direct your focus to the right group. Just what are the odds of having to find one PHP programmer who is a Buffy the Vampire fan on the Newbie forum of PHPBuilder.com? LOL

                  In regards to your statement about me knowing nothing about the Internet, that is stupid. For your information, I have been a software engineer and project manager for 15+ years writing everything from device drivers to developing and managing web applications. I have also owned and operated several websites, used the Internet since 1995, and presently the founder of an Internet startup.

                  Please excuse me for not absorbing myself in the small, yet insignificant world of Buffy the Vampire slayer

                  I have a suggestion:
                  Why don't you ask the administrator of this website to open up a brand new message forum entitled "PHP Development and Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Then see who really cares. ROFLMAO

                  Kerry Kobashi
                  Kobashi Computing

                    The fact still remains, if FOX was THAT bothered about it there would be no such thing as roleplaying groups for Buffy, if they were they would have sued them for breach of whatever! But you havent disputed that, just replied with male banter, so eat that.

                    If you know nothing about the curcumstances of what I'm discussing then don't shove your unknowing mouth into things you have no knowledge of! Get the facts before putting your pennys worth in! Your a project manager, you should know by now to do RESEARCH, no matter what it is or how much your interested in the topic.

                    And showing off doesnt impress me, you have failed to show any logical or objective reason, you see things as black and white, failing to see the other side which I'm trying to tell you. You think that I'm making some sort of video game, and it isnt!

                    Oh, and btw, what are the odds of finding say a painter that likes to surf the internet, and has built his own website, for personal interests learning all about it, you don't know who knows what or does what so don't talk to me about odds.

                      Sorry, but you have been very rude and not nice. So when that happens to people who I am trying to help, I put them on ignore.
                      Have a nice day.

                      Kerry Kobashi
                      Kobashi Computing

                      P.S.
                      What bothers me most about people like you is that you choose to take, rather than contribute. Your original question starting off this thread deserves no answer because its not a question, but rather a request to get someone else to do the work for you.
                      After reviewing the history of your posts in this community, it's obvious that you provide little contribution other than trying to get others to do work for you. Enough said.

                        sigh, making yourself look superior and walking off when you cant challenge statements....admit your wrong, no wait you have an ego, scratch that lol.

                        I have searched the net and have found an interview with joss weadon, the very creator of the characters in Buffy, and here are his views from the following question;

                        How do you feel about the cultural impact of Buffy? The comics, merchandise, fan fiction, etc?

                        Whedon: Again, the show was designed to be the kind of show that people would build myths on, read comics about, that would keep growing. So naturally, I'm wicked pleased that it's entering people's consciousness. I obviously can't read [fan fiction], but the fact is there seems to be a great deal of it, and that's terrific. I wished I'd had that outlet as a youngster, or had the time to do it now.

                        From the horses mouth as it were...roleplaying is basically group fan fiction. I don't want to argue with you....you were the one that came into this conversation pushing legal stuff down my throat that although maybe true I have seen no evidence of any ramifications of roleplaying etc being sued or whatever, most likely you'd get a cease and desist letter, and companies take different views on this. I somehow dont think that a major tv company like fox are going to sue a single fan with limited financial resources, they have nothing to gain from this. The money that they would pay their lawyers would far outway what I'd be able to pay them, or anyone else for that matter, and fair use can be a way out in some circumstances.

                        PS: What would you have me contribute as I'm pretty much learning php? my knowledge fountain that is NOT? Don't talk so STUPID. I come here to learn, how can I help people with things I have no knowledge of, which is exactly what your trying to do lol.

                          close this thread???

                          it starts to show some hate feelings.. or something 😕

                            yeah someone close it after this, I am in the process of contacting fox right now to see where they stand on it....lets leave it at this, sick of arguing with that 'know-it-all' anyways lol.

                            And btw, I will be helping in the project, I will be designing the front end, the html and css portion of it, and learning the php side as the project progresses....for your info!

                              Yes, please nuke.

                              The original question has nothing to do with a PHP question but rather a SOLICITATION.

                              Kerry Kobashi
                              Kobashi Computing

                                REALLY bent out of shape was the originator of the thread.

                                I find that EXTREMELY interesting.

                                Nuke this thread before PLEASE!

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