well people, some of u claim to be worse, well i claim to be worser 😃

I'm the worst programmer here, to start with my math just stinks, and without good match u won't be able to program.

Heck i dun even program, i just copy some script, wich i try to figure out how it works, and then after a few weeks when i found out.. i will try to modify it, and i will have to start over since what i first thought i understand, i don't understand.

Hmm yes indeed some 1337 language there... u know there are scripts for that... it's that i'm to lazy to get it..else i would use it.. but writing in it requires me to think.. and heck.. since i'm the worst i even have problems with thinking. 🆒

    So if we list the qualities of a "good" programmer" then we can easily compare apples to crappy apples LOL

    Good programmers need:
    1. Logic (of which I have very little by default, being more easily run by heart than head)
    2. Attention to detail (of which I am horrible, being more one to see the bigger picture)
    3. Good math skills (of which I used to have - tested out of calculus in college - but now I can't figure out a tip at a restaurant)

    I guess I'm in the running for worst, then, eh? 😃
    But I do make a mean Rice Krispie Treat.

    -Elizabeth

      Well, then, all is forgiven. 😃 Rice Krispy Treats fix everything!

      1. Logic? I am four, I think. There.

      2. Hmmm... Attention to detail? Yeah, I saw what's his name give a lecture about this at that one big conference a couple of months ago. I can't remember where, though.

      3. Good math skills -- Hah! Piece of cake!

      I think I have this one nailed. I am the best programmer.

        In all seriousness, a good programmer, IMHO, is one that realizes that they really aren't that good. As long as you know who to ask, how to ask it, and where/when to RTFM, then you are a good programmer.

        That said, I have seen poor programming practices. That doesn't mean the person writing them was a bad programmer. It just means he stretched the limits of his programming knowledge, and has more to learn. Every day I realize I have more to learn, and every day that I learn something new is a good day. That is why I am happy about being a PHP newbie. I have been a developer for 10 years, developing mostly Lotus Notes / Domino applications, and it is exciting branching out into new territory.

        So... I seriously doubt the topic question will ever be answered. Those who truly believe themselves to be the best rarely are (and are not willing to learn new things), and those that are at the top of the list would never believe they truly were.

        So... let's just talk about true love and Rice Krispy treats -- two subjects that I believe are NOT mutually exclusive 😃

          OK I must add one more Rice Krispie Treat reference and then we can get back to the topic at hand LOL... sorry for the digression.

          A humorous thesis regarding the perception of Rice Krispie Treats and the substitution of "generic" rice cereal for the real thing:

          http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/m/j/mjh286/RiceKrispieTreats.html

          Herein lies the end of the discussion regarding Rice Krispie Treats, that is unless someone can draw a correlation between one's ability to make Rice Krispie Treats and one's programming ability... 😃

          -Elizabeth

            I am sure I can draw a correlation between cut-up squares of Rice Krispie treats and the development of good, clean, modular code... 😃

            Hear then the bizarre and twisted love story of a man and his rice krispies treats: An Open Letter to Mr. Kellogg

            A wonderful digression... I give it three thumbs up!

              i have a feeling the really good coders

              1- don't use php
              2- work in the government far away from message boards
              3- use techniques and ide's that would make our heads explode

                4 - need a life
                5 - have few friends
                6 - know how to kill a human being 14 different ways with an AOL disk.

                  Originally posted by ednark
                  2- work in the government far away from message boards

                  My Uncle works for the NSA...they're not as far away from the message boards as you might think...

                    Yeah? My uncle Luigi works for... well... let's just say he has a steady job. He'd like to meet your uncle to discuss that little bet he made at the track the other day. His associates call him "The Reprogrammer." He's VERY good.

                      strange people on this forum, one has Xander Cage for an uncle and the other one is related to a nintendo character.

                      OMG! It makes you Mario's son then :eek:

                        Yeah... and I have Princess Toadstool for a mother. Just what are you trying to say?

                          i have a feeling the really good coders

                          1- don't use php
                          2- work in the government far away from message boards
                          3- use techniques and ide's that would make our heads explode

                          do these techniques include doing this?

                          #include "classes.h"
int main()
{
daClass = new CmyClass;
return (0);
}

                          instead of this?

                          #include "classes.h"
int main()
{
daClass = new CmyClass;
daClass.start();
return (0);
}

                          The argument for which was that only one start should be called per execution. If we put it in the constructor, there's no possibility for error in the client code.

                          Needless to say, 10 points off that assignment... the guy that insisted upon it codes for the defense deparment.

                          Well, this technique did make my head explode...

                          EDIT: whoops I made a mistake... it's been awhile...
                          should be:
                          CmyClass daClass;

                          or daClass->start();
                          delete(daClass);
                          dang it's been awhile.

                            Originally posted by BuzzLY
                            In all seriousness, a good programmer, IMHO, is one that realizes that they really aren't that good. As long as you know who to ask, how to ask it, and where/when to RTFM, then you are a good programmer.

                            Good programmers don't have a humble opinion - They aren't humble.

                            So... I seriously doubt the topic question will ever be answered. Those who truly believe themselves to be the best rarely are (and are not willing to learn new things), and those that are at the top of the list would never believe they truly were.

                            You wouldn't know if you weren't at the top, would you?

                              Originally posted by ednark
                              i have a feeling the really good coders

                              1- don't use php
                              2- work in the government far away from message boards
                              3- use techniques and ide's that would make our heads explode

                              1. False
                              2. Omit
                              3. True

                              I think you are confusing PHP with COBOL.

                              Please excuse the website being down, I'm switching ISP.

                                Originally posted by IWS


                                Good programmers don't have a humble opinion - They aren't humble.

                                ---

                                You wouldn't know if you weren't at the top, would you?

                                Why do you find it necessary to insult me like that? We are simply having a conversation about what we think makes a good programmer, and you have to respond by insinuating that because I stated "IMHO" I am not a good programmer? And to think that in a previous post you said you were a nice guy.

                                Considering the fact that you advertise your domain when you don't even have it pointing to a website, and your incredible claims to know 20 languages and 20 operating systems (I'm not sure I can NAME 20 OS's!), especially at the age of 23!, I must take your opinion with a grain of salt.

                                I know I'm a good programmer. Not necessarily the best, but I do my job well. At least, well enough to warrant a decent salary and continued employment. And that, alas, it probably what defines a good programmer these days, don'tcha think?

                                  Mr. Bell is starting to sound rather unfriendly. Maybe we should pause to examine how a good programmer participates in a discussion and contributes to a sense of community...

                                    BuzzLY IMHO a good programer lives from his skills, you do, I do let's leave it at it 🙂

                                      Originally posted by BuzzLY


                                      Why do you find it necessary to insult me like that? We are simply having a conversation about what we think makes a good programmer, and you have to respond by insinuating that because I stated "IMHO" I am not a good programmer? And to think that in a previous post you said you were a nice guy.

                                      Considering the fact that you advertise your domain when you don't even have it pointing to a website, and your incredible claims to know 20 languages and 20 operating systems (I'm not sure I can NAME 20 OS's!), especially at the age of 23!, I must take your opinion with a grain of salt.

                                      I know I'm a good programmer. Not necessarily the best, but I do my job well. At least, well enough to warrant a decent salary and continued employment. And that, alas, it probably what defines a good programmer these days, don'tcha think?

                                      I did not intend to send out an insult. IMO, an insult is not an insult unless you take it as an insult. Humbleness is something I was taught to have and learned to resist. As regards to the second paragraph, I have no reason to lie in this forum. As regards to the third paragraph, I deny nothing. I seem to cycle through clients fairly often, something I don't quite understand.