How long have people been doing PHP?

crickettdt

I recently read the thread on how old were people when they started learning PHP. Very interesting. It seemed to me that a lot of people had only recently taken it up.

I would like to know how hard have people found it to get work in php roles, with only a few months experience? I find that many jobs are just not available for people with less than 2 years experience. As i only have 9 months, its difficult to get this work.

Any comments?

_SuperString

Well the way I see it, someone with 5 years experience may be nowhere near as good as someone with 5 months !!
If its all in a good cause then maybe a little white lie my be needed (just 3 months or so more, to take it upto 1 year).

I think its all down to the type of experience and the intensity of if that counts. I know that employers dont see it that way when writing pre-requesits for jobs.

I had only used PHP for about 2 days when I got my job (as a PHP Developer), its just that I had experience using similar types of languages doing the same type of thing (and was confident I could pick it up quickly). You really only need show that you have what it takes.

// start edit
...forgot to mention when I started PHP... it was march 2002
// end edit

Bunkermaster

september 99 (thought it was later but i looked at my archives and i surprised myself)

crickettdt

Interesting. The only bugbear is stupid job agents, who try to get you a contract, and don't understand the languages.

I recently heard of an agent who a few years ago was asking for a minimum of 10 years Java - when the language was only a couple of years old!

_SuperString

ive seen these job ad before too,

'looking for a bright individual, must be hardworking and upto-date in the latest web technologies.This position requires at least 4 years experience in all the following - java, c, cpp, .net, pascal, uml, oracle, perl, php, asp, jsp and freehand. It would also be advantages that the individual has basic understanding of programming, but not essential. Salary upto 12K'

Sometimes these folk just make the jobs-up to get more peoples CV in their database, just in the odd change a real position does come about.

.. can you tell ive been messed about with agencies before ?

crickettdt

Yes, not that you're bitter about it!

I feel exactly the same way. No offence to anyone who thinks HTML is hard - but i recently applied for a html contract - they wanted 5 years. I really don't see that after doing it for a year or so, you can learn that much more - even if there are bits you don't understand - it takes very little effort to figure out etc.

I know some people will say there are advantages to having 5 years experience in HTML, and yes there are, but only if you have significantly increased your knowledge of the subject for each consecutive year. Otherwise, you won't have improved.

Elizabeth

I've been doing PHP for about a year, but HTML since 1997. Dabbled in programming & databases off and on for as long as I can remember.

I wholeheartedly agree with $SuperString regarding the "good programmers may be relatively new to the language" theory- I think once you become a programmer you basically "get it" and the rest is just learning semantics and syntax for that particular language.

And I also agree that non-programmers are the ones hiring, so they don't really know what they're talking about many times... but think about it. If they were great programmers, they'd be in IT not HR 🙂

my .02
-Elizabeth

planetsim

Ive been doing PHP since July this Year. And working with Qbasic, most of the basics that come with PHP i already knew, i just needed to code the function name differently.

But i dont think its how long you've learnt.
I think it comes down to experince with other Languages. Like most web languages most of them are just things off other languages. PHP - C/C++
A good example is XML its got XHTML, XFORMS, XPATHS, SOAP, WAP, WML

oh and i started HTML around this time last year

dalecosp

I also started around July or August...I started in the 'business' of computers et al in earnest just in September 2001.

A "friend" knew I was working 2-3 odd jobs, including one part time in a small office, and that this small office had only 2.5 employees but 5 networked computers, everyone had email, file sharing, we had a web site, etc.

She worked for a 3/4 million dollar outfit that had 7 or 8 FT employees and a LAN, but email had been down since February<!!> It's my next advertising slogan, perhaps...."you haven't had email since when???"

I got 'em working, and got 'em through Nimda, and the rest is history. I do "solutions" for SOHO and residential clients in my area. I just started paying myself a salary (instead of spending all the company's $$ every month) and have engaged a very-PT bookeeper. I know some "IT professionals" hate guys like me, but I work hard to keep the folks happy, and it's paying off.

I picked up PHP in July 'cause this same friend got me working on their website for a small amount per hour. (Like the email, it's hadn't been updated for months....) PHP rocks....the only programming experience I had was in the late 70's/early 80's on BASIC, and I was writing scripts in 3 days or less....it beats static HTML and the crap spit out by WYSIWYG editors all to pieces....

Elizabeth

Dalecosp, sounds like you and I have very similar situations... I run an online giftshop (www.giftsforengineers.com for a shameless plug) but we are a very small company. PHP was our solution to growing our store, plus I fell in love with it when I started coding. PHP is only one component of what I'm responsible for, though.

I've done some other web design/ e-commerce stuff for a few other small companies, all through referrals and all through "freelance" work. We don't get paid much, but it's great to help other struggling businesses compete with the bigger guys. One of our clients was quoted $20,000 for a VERY simple site... it's ridiculous.

My advice to crickettdt is to keep with the little guys... you may not become a millionaire, but if you do a good job the referrals will keep you going. And there are definitely more important things than money. So take a chance and maybe do your own thing, if you can't find what you're looking for in a big corporation!

-Elizabeth

Damien_Buttler

I can't see how you can go wrong working for yourself, at least to some extent. Earlier this year I moved from a large city to a tourist town that has a very small demand for IT work. I started working for a small company (3 people) when I arrived before I decided to work for myself doing computer repairs and network troubleshooting. Now I have hooked up with a webdesigner that needs someone to do PHP which I have now been doing for just two months. I have seen it several times before, by working for yourself, others will see and appreciate your work and work ethic that someone will come by and employ you, regardless of how long you have been doing it before. In the end though, if possible, I would prefer to work for myself.

crickettdt

Its nice to hear that there are a lot of freelancers and small business-people out there who have positive stories. I run a small (2 employee) software and web development consultancy with my brother. We really enjoy it, the work is great etc, but the biggest worry is finding work.

If you want work, you can go to an agent, but then you end up consulting in a big company, whereby you don't have the freedom that you have if you are doing the work for yourself.

Mainly we're trying to find as much work as we can without the use of agents. We're doing lots of promoting the business at Chambers of Commerce etc, going in the Yellow Pages soon.

I much prefer working like this, than working in a big company, where you're just a small cog in the big machine.

We also have another business, which is set up to run a website that we set up. The site is basically just a search portal for Bed and Breakfast accomodation in the UK. Its great, as the whole site is automated, and every time we sell a BnB registration, it all happens without any input from myself.

MrRosary

I have used a wide range of programming languages to a greater or lesser extent since about 1995 and started out with HTML in about 97.

I started out with PHP around last autumn and sort of dabbled with it whilst doing a lot of work in JSP.

In July I got a new job with a small company. I am offically the web development team 🙂

I started using PHP full time for work as my boss liked the price and I had come to really like using PHP.

Now I use PHP exclusively... with maybe the odd little bit of PERL.

I cant agree more about dumb job agents. I got turned down for one job because I said I dont use Dreamweaver / Front Page. They said and I quote "You cant do HTML then"

MrRosary

crickettdt

Very amusing MyRosary - re: dumb job agents and getting turned down for not being able to do HTML.

I know the feeling. I keep getting turned down for jobs which require 2 years min HTML, Dreamweaver, hand coding a distinct advantage. I can see that me having a years hand coding HTML is less worthwhile than employing a monkey to use Dreamweaver.

Elizabeth

Originally posted by crickettdt
Mainly we're trying to find as much work as we can without the use of agents. We're doing lots of promoting the business at Chambers of Commerce etc, going in the Yellow Pages soon.

Personally, I think that is a great way to acquire new business - through local connections and through referrals. I'm a huge believer in referrals- you treat your clients well, and they will treat you well in return.

Also, I don't know how it works over there in the UK, but here if you have something that is of interest to the community you can send a press release to the news media and if it's interesting enough, they will pick it up. This is great publicity for your company and best of all, it's free... Just another idea for you.

Or perhaps you could "donate" your services to a local non-profit agency, such as an animal shelter or home for runaways or something like that- a lot of free publicity and another satisfied client under your belt.

We also have another business, which is set up to run a website that we set up. The site is basically just a search portal for Bed and Breakfast accomodation in the UK. Its great, as the whole site is automated, and every time we sell a BnB registration, it all happens without any input from myself.

Have you thought about expanding this or spinning off something similar - something like a comprehensive restaurant search... or sightseeing search (famous and not-so-famous cool places to go and things to see) - any other information a tourist would need. It sounds like your other business is working great- maybe you could just make it bigger to bring in more revenue, which would also take the pressure off.

Good luck to you!!

-Elizabeth 🙂