Manual To Hard.

null123

I have a question. When I go to the Manual after all the RTFM requests how come the example code is for Advance Coders? People who are Advance does not read the manual that much. The Newbies are the one who go to the Manual alot and I want to know why the people who post Examples to the Online Manaual post example codes that they know 99.99% of the newbies will not beable to understand it. And to make it even worst they don't even put comments in the damn examples.

So we need to get a "Newbie Manual" where people are not alloed to post code that us newbies won't beable to learn from.

tuf-web_co_uk

i agree completely null123

🙁

stolzyboy

we don't usually send you to the FM to use the advanced examples, simply READ the definition of what you are using, say urlencode(), it tells you what it is used for and it gives you the general syntax, you should then be able to place your own knowledge into that, and if nothing else, play around with it a little, i mean come on, we all had to learn at once, and its always a learning game, but if you don't try and always want handouts, you will always ask for handouts instead of trying

so, in short, RTFM

null123

Us newbies looks for good Examples for what we need. Becuase most of the time we do not understand (too well) what they are trying to say. If we could find a example to breaks down what it means then we will beable to understand it.

laserlight

I think that the user contributed examples just help to explain what the PHP doesnt clearly explain or provide suggestions in using a particular function, they arent intended for coders of any particular skill level, especially since the contributors themselves are of varying skill levels.

I think that a "Newbie's Manual" is not needed.
As soon as a new coder acquires enough skills, he/she can easily browse through the various functions, read the definition, then use it, with trial and error if needed.
If a coder doesnt already have such skills, then it is not manuals that he/she needs, but tutorials.

In effect, you can provide a car manual for a learner driver on using a particular car model, as well as an advanced manual for the more advanced drivers, but you cant substitute the driving lessons.

superwormy

So many of you people post questions like ' how do I find a string in another string? ' which is RIDICULOUS! There are like 6 damn functions in teh manual that show you EXACTLY how to do this underneath the string functions section.

PHP has probably TEH BEST documentation I've ever seen of ANY LANGUAGE, and we get inundated with crazy questions that could be answered easily by the manual, easily by playing around and working things out yourself, or easily by searching Google or searching the forums.

Put some time into actually working thigns out yourself and learning PHP, buy a book if you need to, its a nice easy language to pick up.

In short, to echo stolzyboy, RTFM

bad76

I think the problem
is "coding" manual, not php.

The people would have to start with coding simple program.

Find a string in another string is a coding problem, that is present in every language assembly, c, basic, pascal or other imperative programming language.

With some experience of codign all can read the php manual.
(may be not the best but sure every function is showned at least in the most tipycal use...)

see you

superwormy

I mean, to me, the arguement that the PHP manual is bad or too hard just seems ridiculous.

I have absolutely no formal computer science or programming schooling, have been working with PHP for about 2 years now, and am doing fine. I've taught myself PHP, HTML, Perl, and some ASP without any formal schooling, and I'm not an above-average learner or anything like that either, just an average joe.

Theres no reason anyone else shouldnt' be able to do the same.

I'm not saying its a walk in the park, learning to program in general is not a walk in the park, its something you gotta work at and try, the code isn't just gonna appear on the page for you...

martyn

i would just like to point out that advenced users use the manual a lot too.

It is not possible to know each and every command and syntax layout.

Also i learnt to program in PHP using it, and the comments on the online manual at php.net.

Morrigan

I agree 100% with superwormy.

rebelo

I think the PHP manual is terrific. I have been coding PHP for several years now and I rely on it regularly. I recently started coding in Zend Development Environment (work finally shelled out the dough for some Zend stuff for me) and it is AWESOME! I can click on the functions tab, select a function and hit F1 and it opens a browser to the php.net/this_function page.

It's true that some code examples can be somewhat advanced, but that's just a hurdle that you come over in time. ..

Weedpacket

I use the manual all the time myself; I find myself using the examples as examples - as a means to check that my understanding of what was written in the definition matches what actually happens. I generally don't use the examples as ready-made cookbook answers to my current problem, because they are frequently too simplistic to be useful in the real world.

Maybe a newbie manual would be a good idea, but it wouldn't be a PHP manual, it would be a manual on "how to program". Once the newbie knows how to do that, and is over the "someone write my code for me" phase, the manual becomes much more useful. Certainly the PHP manual is far and away better than many (though not perfect).

Jedi_Legend

I didn't understand the manual at first. I found a set of tutorials that taught be all of the basics and some intermediate PHP concepts. After that, I understood the manual. Once you learn the syntax, all you need to do is to add functions to your 'vocabulary'.

laserlight

Maybe a newbie manual would be a good idea, but it wouldn't be a PHP manual, it would be a manual on "how to program".

hence my statement that such newbies would need tutorials rather than manuals unless they have reached a certain skill level.

Still, a context-free manual on "how to program" will be very difficult, especially if intended for someone with little or no programming knowledge. You can teach the logic in a context-free environment, but you cant really teach the practical aspect in that way.
Not to mention that low level programming languages do differ in programming techniques from high level programming languages too.

leatherback

I agree.. The manual is a bit hard to understand sometimes, lacking proper examples, and explanations which are soemtimes a bit short. (For instance.. The image functions are difficult to get going with) But then.. You can always give things a try, and then start asking questions. I agree with stolzyboy: Read the manual, try, combine it with your own knowledge. If that doesn't work.. Doa serch in the forum on 2 or three words of the problem you seem to have, and you most likely find that your question was posted 109 times before, and you can solve your problem.

But then again. If you can't solve it.. Nobody is going to send you to the manual, if you post a snipped of code, and place a question like Ï tried using blablabla to do blablabla, but I just cannot get it to work / figure out what the manual means / ...
You will most likely get a swift responce from weedpacket (This guy is FAST!) and your problems will disappear as snow from the sun.

But please.. Show some effort from your side too. (I realize: All the easy questions wil then disappear, adn I cannot help anyone anymore: I am also just a newbe, but with some idea on how to use a manual).

On the second part.. Yes.. A lot of problems are not language,. but pure coding. Loops, nesting etcetc. That.. You can only solve by experience / insight into programming.

stolzyboy

You will most likely get a swift responce from weedpacket (This guy is FAST!)

ahhhhhhhhh

come on, i'd like to think that i help peeps pretty fast also, that weedpacket gets so much attention with his helicopter hat, i thought the weasel avatar and sig would make me more attractive of a helper

guess NOT

leatherback

Erhh.. But weasels are such nasty creatures.. They eat all the nice lovely bunnies in my garden...

But agreed...Stolzyboy is pretty fast too. (Why did it take you 5 minutes to respond though //)

😃

stolzyboy

great i suppose this was two minutes now, i don't see weed here

anyway i have an excuse, i was playing Tribes 1

leatherback

Hehe,

You win...

(Oh.. My excuse: I am indexing all my picture CD's, about 400 of them.. Am looking more at my explorer / sript window..)

stolzyboy

k, 3 o'clock AM where i live, time for sleepy time,
laterz