is html a programming language

tuf-web_co_uk

in a despute with a fellow poster i have come to the conclusion that this is the way to solve this

we agreed that html is design

but i still think its a programming language

the basic web programming language

jebster

HTML is a markup language! 😉

Hence the name "hypertext markup language"

Markup "The collection of tags that describe the specifications of an electronic document, as for formatting."

Programming "A set of coded instructions that enables a machine, especially a computer, to perform a desired sequence of operations."

Weedpacket

As someone who has experience in formal language and computability theories, I can state with certainty that HTML is not a programming language. It doesn't do anything, except serve as input to another program.

clearbreach

I've met people who would call HTML a "programming language" just so they can call themselves a "programmer". For whatever reason, being able to correctly use <b> and <i> tags with their fellow closing tags justifies as high-end programming talent and ability.

I'm guessing this is quite like the same person who actually voted 'Yes' on the poll. :p

pyro

lol... Actually, people using <b> and <i> need to read up on CSS. :p Nope, HTML is not a programming language by any means...

laserlight

Well, if someone designs a new programming language and names it "HTML", then HTML is a programming language.

Then again, what about say, using HTML to create drafts of TV programmes (insane), or event programmes (more likely, though a little crazy too)?
Then wouldnt HTML be a "programming" language? 😃

But as jebster and Weedpacket pointed out, on the lines of computer science, HTML is not a programming language.

dalecosp

Markup language --- tells the browser program how to format data...jebster & weed are telling it right... 🙂

tuf-web_co_uk

well in reply to this all i have to say is

MY ICT TEACHER IS COMPLETELY STUPID

lol, well its true

he knows nothing at all, its his fault i'm dumb 🙁

i have an excuse :p

planetsim

If his stupid, maybe you should inform him of this thread.

BuzzLY

Actually, a program is a list of commands intended to perform a specific purpose. The first computer programs were written as a single list of instructions. At one point, they were simple holes punched into cards.

Technically, HTML can be considered a program, as it's a list of instructions given to a browser to perform specific tasks: "Start a table here." "End the row here." "This is the end of the page." The browser is simply the interpreter of those commands.

There are many different types of programs. When it was realized that writing lists of instructions was not reliable, and extremely unproductive, the concept of procedures, or functions, was introduced. Programs that support this concept are called procedural languages.

Another major step in programming came with the advent of objects. This refers to Object Oriented Programming, or OOP.

I personally believe that Markup can be thought of as a style of programming. In the strictest sense, HTML can be thought of as a programming language.

HOWEVER...

When people say "programming" nowadays, it is generally accepted that there is some sort of procedure involved at the least. HTML does NOT supply any sort of procedure, so the general concensus is that HTML is not a programming language.

==================

What is my point? Well, when viewed from a certain perspective, HTML can possibly be viewed as a programming language. Before calling your teacher stupid, approach him and tell him this:

"If HTML is a programming language, how does it differ from other programming languages such as C++ or Visual Basic? I don't understand how a markup language can be considered procedural. There are no functions. So why is it considered a 'programming' language?"

Please don't take this the wrong way -- it is in no way directed at you specifically:

I think one of the problems with our educational system today is not so much the teachers, but the students. More specifically, the fact that students today learn through the media and even their parents that teachers "are just people, and don't deserve any respect." When I went through school, I never thought any of them were stupid. I never questioned their credentials, and as far as I knew, they were the subject matter experts in the areas they were teaching me.

The trend I see today is that kids are told to "question everything." On the surface, it seems like a good thing (there are so many bad people out there taking advantage of children), but I believe that in the long run, it's having a negative effect. Don't question your teacher's ability to teach. TEST it. ASK him questions. Challenge him with intelligent debate. Don't turn your back on him and declare his stupidity. Show him that you are confused by his statement, and perhaps he will take the time to explore the issue with you further. He is a teacher, not a library or computer. His job is to help you learn, even if it means he must learn himself right along with you.

epimeth

well put, buzz....

the way I see it, html is definitely not a programming language... you are not 'programming' anything, just telling a program what text you want where and how it should look.

however, since html today includes tags with events, it can be considered a programming language. but then again, what happens once these events are fired are javascript or vbscript commands which are part of a programming language, not html itself.

So html is a markup language with programming language extensions, I guess....

Weedpacket

I'm sorry, but if it ain't Turing-universal, I just don't feel it qualifies as a "programming" language.

I should rephrase that better: a requirement of a programming language is that it be Turing Universal. PHP is a programming language, as are Javascript and PostScript. Haskell and Emacs LISP are programming languages, and so is POV-Ray's scene description language. Brainf*ck is a programming language and so is the OISC's instruction set.

HTML? Let me know when you can write a program in HTML that will return n+1 for a given n...

Just because it's a machine-readable language doesn't make it a programming language, any more than scanning a pencil sketch makes it "computer generated art".

laserlight

Technically, HTML can be considered a program

the browser and html parsing routines can be considered programs (or at least part of programs).

The html code itself would be the input to the program.

EDIT:
I agree with Weedpacket on that point.
Though I would note that technically no computer is Turing universal, due to physical limitations.
Still, that doesnt detract from the status of a programming language, I suppose.

tuf-web_co_uk

i agree with buzz that many teachers today are questioned

if they are questioned then the person questioning them, if they are wrong, just finds it harder to learn, they would be asking because they dont understand properly, and want to know why exactly what has been told to them is true.

in some of my lessions with him i have found that i and another member of my class know either more on the subject or the correct phrase.

i question people because i believe there is more to what they are telling us, i dont intent to become a bad person from this i am just trying to learn more.

and i cant go up to him and test him, because i have finished school now 😃 well i did about a month ago

Weedpacket

Originally posted by laserlight
I agree with Weedpacket on that point.
Though I would note that technically no computer is Turing universal, due to physical limitations.
Still, that doesnt detract from the status of a programming language, I suppose.

While true, I don't see it as PHP's fault that the server it's running on only has a 60GB hard drive 🙂

scoppc

I've been using HTML for 3 years now and start from the day I knew HTML till today, I dont dare to tell others that I am a programmer. Right after I have adequate knowledge in PHP, I am a programmer.

If HTML is a programming language, how bout XML, CSS, XHTML??

Weedpacket

Originally posted by scoppc
If HTML is a programming language, how bout XML, CSS, XHTML??

Same as for HTML. However...
XML is a metalanguage - it's nothing on it's own, but instead a framework in which to design languages. It's certainly possible for those languages to be programming languages - XSLT is the first that springs to mind.

Hmm... that could be amusing: an XSLT program that takes a file of the form

<tgb verses="[i]n[/i]"></tgb>

and outputs the lyrics to "n Green Bottles".

dalecosp

originally posted by Weedpacket
Hmm... that could be amusing: an XSLT program that takes a file of the form
<tgb verses="n"></tgb>
and outputs the lyrics to "n Green Bottles". [/b]

But that's a contest for another forum.... 😉

Merve

HTML isn't really a programming language. Neither is CSS. PHP is a programming language. It's that simple. Besides, CSS is kind of a part of HTML. It was made for the sole purpose of modifying HTML.

elToro

Actually CSS could be used to style other markup languages as well. But I know what you mean.

This thread seems a bit silly to me. Nearly everyone is going to say the same thing. HTML is a markup language. It defines structure, not behavior or even appearance. The fact that that identical markup could be correctly presented in different ways by different user agents suggests something very different than programming. It's not even comparable to something like PostScript.