Hours and hours of RTFM WORTHLESS?(I know php now what?)

Newrules

I cant get a DAMN misarable FREE LANCE PHP job.
I made a website with my 'company' of php projects and put an ad on the paper. didnt got any result specially because the damn IGNORANT telemarketeer person wrote 'Icommerce', what a pothead, but the thing is
I have experience and cant get a job. I'm charging very low to see if I get at least something TO DO because I'm bored to death of learning and learning, I'm starting to became worried it will all turn out to be WASTED time.

What are some of the strategies to get a damn job. I dont care if its fifty bucks to make amazon like sites, AS long I'm getting work after work im happy, how do you people do it?I see messages and message about how to do this and that, are all these people nerd students with no life or REAL working people GETTING PAID to produce?

Weedpacket

http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10272116

I seem to remember spending five years like that at one point.

planetsim

Just because you know PHP doesnt mean the world needs PHP id suggest until you get work expand your knowledge. Look at what companies want a good way to do that is look in the Positions vacant section of a news paper or better chance online.

I recall ASP & .Net are quite strong as well as Java.

Also the link that weed suggested is good. Id read it if your extremely desperate

AstroTeg

You have to take into account a lot of factors.

How's your proposal to job win ratio going? If you're winning most of your proposals, then I'd say you're having a marketing problem.

Have you done your market research to determine if where you're at has a need for a PHP developer? Are you advertising your services where your target market is looking? Have you tried word of mouth? Do you have groovy business cards? (groovy as in they look sharp and/or awesome and would imply you're top quality)

Also, things tend to come and go. You may be trying to get in when its a dry spell. You may need to give it a good solid 3 to 6 months and see how it goes. If you've been doing it for a year and still haven't had much business, it might be the market trying to telling you to try something different.

Shrike

I think that it's really not what you know, it's who you know, especially when your trying to bring the work in yourself. Speak to the people you've worked for in the past and ask them to pass on your name. Pester them for opportunities.

Also I see alot of people willing to pay (admittedly small amounts) for coders in IRC channels.

I guess you are in the US, but here in the UK alot of IT work is done through employment agency's, and there seems to be no real shortage. Having said that, PHP doesn't even make it into the top 20 required skills. It seems that Oracle, Java, C/C++ and .NET are some of the most required skills here right now. Theres still alot of PHP work out there. Sending CV's off to agency's is a good way to get a look-in

The last thing I'd say is that you've definitely not wasted your time. Once you've gotten proficient with PHP it's fairly easy to move onto other similar languages.

Originally posted by AstroTeg
Do you have groovy business cards? (groovy as in they look sharp and/or awesome and would imply you're top quality)

I have business cards. I've had them for about two years, and used 3 of them...I guess they must suck pretty bad 😉

AstroTeg

Originally posted by Shrike

I have business cards. I've had them for about two years, and used 3 of them...I guess they must suck pretty bad 😉

It all depends on how you make your business work.

For me and my business partner, we will take just about any opportunity to pass our cards out. Front side has the needed info and the backside has our services. Just the other day I passed a card out just to write my cell phone number on it. The guy doesn't need any web development or computer services done right now, but the hope is maybe, just maybe he'll need it down the road or have a friend that might need some. And if we could be the first company he thinks about for computer/web services, then the card has done its job.

Think of the business card as a way to sell your services without being able to do it in person.

Heck, the print shop that made up my cards called me a week or so ago asking for computer help (just one of the things we do). Its been a year since I had the cards made, but they held onto a handful of the cards I gave them. Because of this, a year later they contacted me. Yeah, a year sucks, but we got the gig.

My mom, dad, and friends pass out my cards whenever possible.

I will say word of mouth is very powerful (with or without business cards). Its how I get most of my business.

Elizabeth

Newrules,
If you're starting out on your own, you have to realize a few things:
1) Business will not come knocking on your door, especially at the beginning. You either have to go get it or pay someone to go get it for you. You may be an excellent coder, but if you can't sell yourself, it won't get you very far.
2) It's not just about coding- it's about everything business-related. From managing your expenses to marketing yourself and advertising, to keeping track of your depreciation on your office machinery. Contracting your services out is not as simple as it may seem.
3) Things take time. Your business probably isn't going to be big enough at the beginning to support you and your living expenses. My suggestion is if you really want to do PHP projects, then get a job doing something somewhat related as the other gentlemen so aptly pointed out, and do your PHP on the side. Build your business little by little.

You might try reading some guides for small businesses such as:
Marketing your services for Small Businesses and Professionals
The Computer Consultant's Guide

I do wholeheartedly agree that word of mouth is the most important thing- we don't advertise our business, and if we buy our clients a cup of coffee, we've blown the budget. But then again, we've been in business since 1995. So it takes a little time, but if you're patient it will grow.

hth
-Elizabeth

Newrules

Originally posted by AstroTeg
How's your proposal to job win ratio going?

0 p 0 w
Looks like 100% to me

If you're winning most of your proposals, then I'd say you're having a marketing problem.

Learn how to read. I dont have a NETWORK, obviusly is marketing problem

Have you done your market research to determine if where you're at has a need for a PHP developer?

How about third biggest city in the world?good enough for ya?

Are you advertising your services where your target market is looking?

How about IT section of the biggest newspaper on the country?good enough for you einstein?

Have you tried word of mouth?

LOL

Do you have groovy business cards?

LOL

Also, things tend to come and go. You may be trying to get in when its a dry spell. You may need to give it a good solid 3 to 6 months and see how it goes. If you've been doing it for a year and still haven't had much business, it might be the market trying to telling you to try something different. [/B]

Thats the lusers way, whatever,
I stick with GOOGLE ADS WORDS, and most importan MCDONALS-PHP STYLE, I dont give a damn about underpaying, that link is absolutely ridiculous, I dont have a network and some dork is telling me to SCARE any person I already know with absurd fees, LOL

goldbug

Originally posted by Newrules
0 p 0 w
Looks like 100% to me

The geek in me sees:

"ERROR: DIVISION BY ZERO"

😃 😃

Originally posted by Newrules
How about third biggest city in the world?good enough for ya?

Is that Bombay? If so, there must be some US-outsourced jobs available:p

Elizabeth

New Rules, you asked, we answered. And now it is readily apparent to me why you might be having some difficulties obtaining employment.

AstroTeg

Newrules, I needed a good laugh today. Thanks!

I think I found your problem: Its your attitude.

Once you get your attitude worked out, develop a people network. Start out with your friends. Pass around your business card. Actually, give them a handful and ask them to spread them around when possible (sounds like almost free advertising - well, once you get past the printing costs).

Join clubs and be active. This is a great way to network and get out of the house. I autocross and I've gotten a good amount of business just because I'm active in the clubs and people adventually learn I do web dev stuff. I've also found several really good graphic design guys who are willing to help me out. Don't autocross? No problem. Find something you enjoy doing and get involved.

If you want to go hardcore, then become active in your city's chamber of commerce. Last consulting place I was at bent over backwards with the local chamber of commerce and they ended up rubbing elbows with just about all the local company owners and company decision makers. Its another example of people networking.

So, let me ask this: How long have you been in business now?

What flavor PHP gigs are you looking for? Brochure sites? e-comm? Intranet?

What experience do you bring to the table? How many of the above sites have you done?

How much schooling have you had? College? And what background did you have? Take any marketing or entrepreneurship classes?

LordShryku

Originally posted by AstroTeg
How much schooling have you had? College? And what background did you have? Take any marketing or entrepreneurship classes?

Patience, patience....
Once he's done with the anger managment classes, he can tackle these...

dalecosp

Originally posted by LordShryku
Patience, patience....

Indeed. 😉

I'm on at least my second career. I taught professionally for a long time. During times of adjustment I've delivered pizzas, flipped burgers, hauled hay, been a secretary, and done some design and printing. I began planning a company in 1999. I started it in 2001. My wife (wonderful girl) and I both have part time jobs to make sure that we have time to make my venture something of a success.

It's now 2004; last year my total income (before expenses!) was still slightly less than the part time job that I hold down to help make ends meet as I get this thing going, and a tad more than hers. But, I don't intend to quit.

Personally, you must have a budget and disciplined spending habits. Professionally, you must have organization and people skills. You must also be willing to do "whatever" you can that you will be paid for while you gradually attract more of the kind of business you want. And, to try and stay OT with the subject of this thread, I too get very tired of reading, reading, reading...but that's the nature of this work, AFAICT, from not only my own experience, but from others I know and have read about.

When I started, I kept my business in a 3 ring notebook. That's not enough organization to bring in 10K, much less 100K [and this is an area everyone can work on...]. Gradually, it's moving along ... I'm fixing computers (when I can figure the &#*%& things out), installing networks for small offices and homes, and I spend a lot of time cleaning virii and adware off of infected Windows boxes, installing printers, making recommendations about this and that, and helping people correct their own stupid "pilot errors" via Windows XP Remote Assistance.

In the meantime, I'm hosting a couple of paying sites on my servers (I don't know if they make anything from them [well, one does, they say so ...] but I do...), creating a couple of sites using PHP for pay, (one's finished long since), building my own office infrastructure and organization (I'm now using PHP to track billing, customer data, my checkbook, my appointments, etc....) It's great --- when I need I new feature, I write one, and as it runs in a browser, its expandandable to as many stations as I can fit in the barn. And it's free, and that's very good for me. Just this week I got automagic calculation and printing of invoices. Now I can pay my "billing" lady to do something else, or tell her "bye" and hire someone with technical skills.

When the time is right, I'll advertise with something beyond just a website and business cards (yes, I've got a big box of them, and occasionally give one away) and wearing the same 6 polo shirts every week. Hopefully, I'll be ready; it will grow some more, I'm sure; how much is the question.

It's pretty much about people skills as much as anything else. I can sit here and code all day, but if I don't talk to a client, I don't know their needs, I don't have answers for them, I don't have the basis for sending them an invoice. If I'm not thinking about the needs of the businesses around me, I'm not putting myself in a position to pitch my services. If I'm not honing my skills, I'm not growing enough to handle the NBC (Next Big Challenge(tm)).

A friend of mine is in insurance. He has a big family, and lots and lots of friends --- nobody in the county it seems he doesn't know something about. He's built his business to the point that I'd call him fairly well off. Mostly by friendliness and word of mouth, and spending hours and hours on the phone. When I hang out with him during the day and even in the evening, his cell rings at least twice an hour, and 50% of the time it's a client ...

If you want to work for someone else, keep job hunting [and learn another language, and then another]. If you want to work for you, you'll probably need to suck it up and make it happen. Either way could work in the end.

But it's not likely that steaming about it will do much good. I hope it works out for you...

Newrules

Originally posted by AstroTeg
Newrules, I needed a good laugh today. Thanks!
I think I found your problem: Its your attitude.
Once you get your attitude worked out, develop a people network.

Lord! This is an INTERNET BOARD, so leave your psycology for later

Start out with your friends. Pass around your business card. Actually, give them a handful and ask them to spread them around when possible (sounds like almost free advertising - well, once you get past the printing costs).

Asking for my competition to get work for me. Genius!

Join clubs and be active. This is a great way to network and get out of the house. I autocross and I've gotten a good amount of business just because I'm active in the clubs and people adventually learn I do web dev stuff. I've also found several really good graphic design guys who are willing to help me out. Don't autocross? No problem. Find something you enjoy doing and get involved.

If you want to go hardcore, then become active in your city's chamber of commerce. Last consulting place I was at bent over backwards with the local chamber of commerce and they ended up rubbing elbows with just about all the local company owners and company decision makers. Its another example of people networking.

Not bad.

So, let me ask this: How long have you been in business now?

What flavor PHP gigs are you looking for? Brochure sites? e-comm? Intranet?
What experience do you bring to the table? How many of the above sites have you done?

How about two thousand dollars in a week with the one of the most important companies in the country?(ANEEL)good enough for ya?

How much schooling have you had? College? And what background did you have? Take any marketing or entrepreneurship classes?

LOL, like I need that, what I am supposed to manage??How much I spend on coffee? how many functions I memorize on the TFM?Please,.
I got work and money BY LUCK, because my FRIEND who is my COMPETITION was OVERLOADED and decided to give to me. Yet I know 2x on PHP J2EE than him BUT I DONT HAVE NETWORK. NOR MONEY to Keep ads on paper or in google, this means I'm ***ed and will starve to death, YET I have to hear from someone that 'you should charge more' lol

planetsim

if you know J2EE and PHP isnt bringing any work why dont you start marketing yourself as a J2EE person instead of PHP.

Obviously if your not willing to spend money theres absolutely no way your going to get anywhere.

LOL, like I need that, what I am supposed to manage??How much I spend on coffee? how many functions I memorize on the TFM?Please,.

Yes thats not a bad idea how much you spend on money you are trying to create a business and create profits right?

Elizabeth

Originally posted by Newrules
I got work and money BY LUCK, because my FRIEND who is my COMPETITION was OVERLOADED and decided to give to me. Yet I know 2x on PHP J2EE than him BUT I DONT HAVE NETWORK.

[rant]
Did you ever consider the reason you don't have a "network" is because you're an a$$ who thinks the world owes him a living just because you think you know more than everyone else? Perhaps your FRIEND has LEARNED to keep his mouth shut and LISTEN to those who might KNOW MORE THAN HE DOES, which is WHY he's OVERLOADED and you're stuck at home with your thumb up your a$$.
[/rant]

Wow I feel better... I need to do that more often.

LordShryku

Imagine that.....for once it's not me who's ranting. 😃

Though I agree with every last word she said. Obviously all the remarks here haven't told you that you're just being rude, when you came here asking for our opinions. Can't imagine what an actual employer goes through with you. Sure, we may be geeks, and the bulk of our work is done behind a keyboard, but without people skills, you'll never get a job doing this stuff.

Weedpacket

WOW! The OTHER LART!

You could feel that one even this far away from the blast radius!

(I dunno - two of the last three IT companies I've been involved with went bust on me. Heigh-ho, here's to the fourth...)

People? Oh, they're fine in theory, but the implementation is too buggy for me to deal with.

Weedpacket

Originally posted by goldbug
Is that Bombay?

Or Tokyo?

goldbug

Originally posted by Weedpacket
Or Tokyo?

Isn't Tokyo #1?