coding off-site and payment

twostepted

I am considering a project where the payment will be a percentage of the profits. I live on the opposite coast (US) from the rest of the partners and the project would be hosted on their server. I am very interested in taking on the project. But I don't have any reason to trust these people. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to 'code some leverage into their php applications' so that in the case where they decide not to pay, I could very easily shut down their site. And I would like to do this in such a way the site remains secure against other attacks. The application is database customer to client tool. Thanks for any ideas.

LordShryku

Well, this assumes that they know nothing about the code, but a simple one page "turn off" or "delete me" sort of thing. You can just set a switch in a file or in the db to check against, to see if the value is "on" or "off". If off, don't render the page. If on, ok, go ahead. The delete method is a bit harder to pull off, but also more effective. You would have to make sure the pages are running under with the owner of the web user(usually "nobody" with Apache), rm -rf the things, bye bye application.

Again, this assumes they don't know php, and couldn't just code those out.

twostepted

Thanks LordShryku. That is a great idea. Of course we're assuming that they don't have a backup. Maybe there is a way that one could test if some piece of user data matched a certain value (ie a password == somevalue) then turn the switch which starts the whole process. I was trying to think of someway to send the contents of the database away (via email or ftp). Has anyone had to do this for backup purposes?

LordShryku

The problem occurs if your database gets too big. I assume you're going to use MySQL, so you can use mysqldump to get the contents, and php's mail function would shoot it off to you...

twostepted

you mean that the potential problem would be the db gets too big for an email or attachment? So it might be wise to break it up into smal pieces?

LordShryku

Exactly, you might want to have your email script break it up into chunks to send out if it gets too big. Shouldn't be hard to do...

You could also allow this page to enter credentials to upload a mysqldump file with php's ftp functions.

onion2k

Will you be employed by these people to write the site? If contract law works the same way over there as it does in the UK, the content of the site, including all the PHP code, is copyrighted to the person who paid for it, not the person who created it.

That is to say, the script I'm writing now is copyrighted to my boss' company, not me.

Therefore, if you were to delete all the code the people you're in business with would have the right to sue you for anything they paid PLUS anything the site might have earned if you'd not deleted it.

Read your contract VERY carefully before taking any radical action.

(Also, building backdoors into software is covered by the Patriot Act over there isn't it? I think it may get you thrown in prison. Not sure. I'm better at UK law than US)

twostepted

No one will be paying for the PHP code up front. I will be trading it in exchange for a share of the profits.

So far we haven't reached a detailed business agreement. What type of a contract do I need to have? Our plan is to define a business agreemtent in writing including each partner's role and profit share and then send eachother signed copies. I would like to get a signed copy from them first since I am the only one off-site. Does any or all of this sound reasonable? What would happen if there was a problem? Would I have to go across the US to get anything done?

AstroTeg

I would agree - you shut the site down and they will come after you for messing with their property and lost profits (seen it done in the USA before).

Its your call on what you want to do. I think you're only choice would be to try to sue them for the money if they fail to pay up, but:

How would you know what profits they make?
How do you know you're getting your fair share?
How would you prove in court your case against them?

Its all about risk. What are you going to do to minimize it? And how much risk are you willing to take on?

For all web projects I work on, I ask for 1/3rd up front. If the client can't do this, then they're not interested in paying me or seeing the project till the end. If they pay the 1/3rd, then they're definitely interested in working with me to get the project done (and I'm definitely interested in getting the other 2/3rds!).

But maybe they can't afford the 1/3rd up front. Can they give you something else of similar value? Say, some of their product? Maybe partial ownership in the company (may be time to see a lawyer). Here you get to be creative.

ShawnK

CONTRACTS!? What would probaly be better is you to build an activation type thing into the script. Like it won't work without activating it.

What you should do about the money is have them give you say 200 USD now, and then if they are legit...they would have like a credit.

ex. I make 10 a week, you get 2 dollars out of that...you want to make sure you get cash, so I pay you 20 dollars up front...now you won't get payed for 10 weeks because I have already payed you for that....

ShawnK

Also onion...

You wrote...

Will you be employed by these people to write the site? If contract law works the same way over there as it does in the UK, the content of the site, including all the PHP code, is copyrighted to the person who paid for it, not the person who created it.

If they don't pay for it, then it is not theirs!

twostepted

Thanks for the advice all. I told them that I'll need to get paid for the work as it is done. I said that I'll post the work on my host as it's completed so they can demo it. Then as we reach milesones, they'll pay for the work. This position is weaker than getting paid upfront because I'll have to get it just right before they pay. But maybe that'll make them more comfortable with the situation and I'll be able to have a job.

onion2k

Originally posted by ShawnK
If they don't pay for it, then it is not theirs!

That depends entirely on the contract. If theres 5 people involved, and they each have a 20% share of the business, then technically they each own 20% of the assets. Intellectual property, including things like code and data, is classed as an asset. However, if the contract stipulates that the code remains the property of the developer, then they don't have any claim on it. Chances are though that they'd not sign a contract with that sort of clause in it. I certainly wouldn't if I was entering into business with an outside contractor. It'd be too open for the developer to bugger off and take everything with him.