not the best choice of language I guess

sdbland

I really think the other language is the best solution.

php seems incredibly weak compared to the Java/JSP combination. we only went with php as it was easier to find hosting partners. but all of it's short comings and the fact that it seems to have very little design or a thorough design process as to what goes into it ( along with really poor and conflicting documentation ) seem to be making it a very bad choice for anything other than the most simple of sites

rebelo

I think that's absurd, but that's just my humble opinion. As for poor and conflicting documentation, I'd be interested in examples of said documentation. I have, in my three or four years using php, found the documentation to be of excellent standards.

TheDefender

OK than sdbland. Good luck with all of your Java/JSP solutions.

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself... Why "it was easier to find hosting partners." If you are using it to only design the "simplest of sites" than that tells me you are unwilling to learn the language to it's fullest extent, because I (along with a lot of others here and around the world) have used it quite extensively to build some very complex sites.

Either that, or it just doesn't suit YOUR needs and purposes. Just because it doesn't meet your needs, doesn't mean it isn't a worthy language to learn... given the thousands and thousands of people around the world who are doing that very thing.

Weedpacket

Huh, couldn't even get the post into the right forum.

LordShryku

Must be a trend. I better jump on the bandwagon, go to a JSP forum, register a nick, then proceed to badmouth their language of choice because I don't know it as well as my language of choice.

/me scurries off to berate some Java folks.

planetsim

Maybe he should get his facts straight "Java/JSP" i was under the impressions java and jsp was the same language :bemused:

"along with really poor and conflicting documentation" mustnt know about http://php.net/manual/en

sdbland if you havent got anything constructive to say or at least show valid points dont say anything your just going to get flamed

sdbland

I had asked a question about php, but was told it could not be done. possibly in responding to that I hit the wrong button at the bottom of the page, which probably led to the 'post in the wrong area replies'.

having worked with Java and JSP ( yes I know they are not the same thing ), but you can work with them together in the same environment to build applications and advanced online websites etc, I, personally, find php rather limiting.

how about if we just hit the 'this thread closed button' on this and move on.

LordShryku

Well, I see your other thread, and just because one person says php can't do it, doesn't really mean php can't do it. Look at this thread, which has a script for posting to a page using sockets. I'd do some more research before making statements like that. But if you really feel that way, instead of badmouthing the language which this forum was built for, just use JSP and be done with it.

bubblenut

I personally have to use Java for about a quarter of my work and find it very usefull indeed. I find it very suited to strict frameworks which need to be highly structured across the board. However, when it comes to a highly dynamic site which needs to be changed here and there many times a day (for things like one off promotions, quick updates and the like) Java would be completely unmanageable. Within a couple of weeks it would colapse into a mess of useless hack classes holding together a fraying, disipated framework.
Yes, I think Java is great. I go against many people on this board with that view but I could never imagine Java taking the role of PHP. Java is a highly structured language designed for highly structured systems. Dynamic (and by that I do not just mean database driven, I mean constantly and fundamentaly changing) sites require something that is just as dynamic and that something is PHP.

TheDefender

Originally posted by bubblenut
Within a couple of weeks it would colapse into a mess of useless hack classes holding together a fraying, disipated framework.

This is going on my Quote O' The Day bulletin board at work...

dalecosp

You're right --- "I guess".

You guessed that PHP wasn't as "able" as Java/JSP because you aren't able to know.

I'm not trying to criticize you personally, but it certainly seems your statement that PHP "is not the best choice of language" is coming from a viewpoint as ignorant as hearing me say that "Java is hard to handle, bloated, and obtuse" and "if everyone developed web sites using JSP instead of PHP the Internet backbone might crash under the weight of the additional terabytes that had to be served...."

I'm not holding to those opinions; I simply made them up ... I'm rather ignorant of JSP. But do you hear what it sounds like now?

Unless you've a good handle on both PHP and JSP, your opinions are probably just that ... opinions. Like the guy who sells gas down at the 7-11 discussing the finer points of driving Formula One racers, for example ....

Shrike

I wonder how many PHP authors go onto Java boards and rant about how Java is slow to develop, expensive to run, inaccessible, ya ya ya. Not many, I think.

bubblenut

Originally posted by Shrike
I wonder how many PHP authors go onto Java boards and rant about how Java is slow to develop, expensive to run, inaccessible, ya ya ya. Not many, I think.

That's because all PHP developers are kind, loving, upstanding members of the internet comunity who would never dream of saying a bad word against anyone. :rolleyes:

Shrike

Haha 🙂

planetsim

Originally posted by bubblenut
That's because all PHP developers are kind, loving, upstanding members of the internet comunity who would never dream of saying a bad word against anyone. :rolleyes:

but will defend to the death agaisnt anyone who criticises PHP :p

Merve

I don't know enough about any other language to criticise it. Although for some reason, I seem to say a lot that ColdFusion is hard to learn, or that ASP seems quite annoying...maybe I'm wrong...I just haven't learned if I'm wrong yet.

LordShryku

Actually, Coldfusion is pretty easy to learn and can be quite powerful. It just consumes every resource on your machine, so have a beefy server to dedicate to it. Plus, it's proprietary, which isn't a plus in my book.

drawmack

I don't like JSP because I don't like Java and JSP stands for Java Server Pages because the language you use to program them is Java. I don't like java for a couple of reasons, the whole byte code thing is just stupid. I don't like being forced to use OOP, becuase sometimes PP works better.

On top of those JSP's compiler doesn't always compile your updates unless you delete the old byte code. One more step to remember.

And in case you're worndering I have worked with Java, JSP, VB, C++, Python, PERL, ProLog, Cobol, PHP, JavaScript, ADA, and about 10 other languages.

Bunkermaster

Originally posted by bubblenut
That's because all PHP developers are kind, loving, upstanding members of the internet comunity who would never dream of saying a bad word against anyone. :rolleyes:

PHP = People Hate Perl

I am not a java fan... In my old carreer as a QA expert for software corps I saw too many Java projects get flushed and start from scratch because or:
- Design issues
- Performance issues
- "Where the hell are we now" issues

I have been able to do anything I wanted to do with PHP so far and it includes a load of different things that most people wouldn't even imagine. :glare:

Elizabeth

Originally posted by Bunkermaster

I have been able to do anything I wanted to do with PHP so far and it includes a load of different things that most people wouldn't even imagine. :glare: [/B]

Yeah, didn't you make that female bot that would succumb to your every whim- that was done with PHP right?