PHP versus Java article

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The following article contains a couple links and a few comments on PHP versus Java.

http://www.iinotia.com/iinotia/index.php?topic=PHP%20/%20Java

What do y'all think?

yuraupt

The guy says:

I found the requirement for a $-sign in front of variable names to be quite odd when I first encountered it. However, I've since discovered I love the feature. Those bugs that drove me crazy over the years where I though I was using a variable and discovered that's not what the compiler or interpreter thought, are a thing of the past.

That was funny. Those bugs are more likely in PHP than in Java, when you forget to put $-sign in front of a variable. In Java you will find a problem during compilation time (or even during writing the code - smart IDE will warn about an error). But in PHP you will discover it during runtime - and indeed it will drive you crazy for find the reason :-)) May be this is what he was talking about...

PHP and Java they each have their own purpose. PHP is good for a simple websites. Java is better for more complex systems.

LordShryku

Originally posted by yuraupt
In Java you will find a problem during compilation time (or even during writing the code - smart IDE will warn about an error). But in PHP you will discover it during runtime

Could that maybe have anything to do with php not being compiled? I don't know, just a guess here :rolleyes:

yuraupt

your guess is right 😃

The result is still the same you know about the problem during runtime. That's all I said. I did not tell if PHP is compiling or not.

LordShryku

It's silly to even make that statement though. To say Java is better because it warns you ahead of time about your errors, or that it's a bug in php when you're talking about two different evaluation times is just nonsense. If you can't be arsed to debug your code before putting it into production or you need an IDE to point everything out to you, well, you're a lazy coder, and yes, you probably shouldn't use php.

yuraupt

I made a comment for that article. You probably missed that...

I use both PHP and Java. And I like them both. Did I say that Java is better than PHP? I don't see any point arguing of what is better.

Btw, I re-read what that guy said in his article. Probably I misundestood him. His was saying about PHP in that sentence not about Java. This one

Those bugs that drove me crazy over the years where I though I was using a variable and discovered that's not what the compiler or interpreter thought, are a thing of the past.

I thought he said it about Java and started to chew old gum.

ZibingsCoder

And on another note about the 'Smart IDE' bit. Maybe I read it wrong, but, Zend Studio will warn you during composition if you've got an error. Good old Zend...if only it wasn't overpriced...

Of course, when all is said and done, I agree with LordShryku about the utter pointlessness of this thread. If you want to compare languages, go somewhere besides the PHPBuilder forums. Just a thought...(and a way to maybe keep this from showing up again here?....heh...I'm funny)

drawmack

I think that it's good and healthy to read language comparisions. Of course, it's better and healthier to write some of them.

That being said I think this guy went about writting his comparison in the wrong way.

First of all, he states opinion as fact. On many cases he says the winner is java because of something that really has no effect on security, run time or programming time. Basically when you're comparing languages you should look at
Readability - if one langauges way of doing it is more readable then another there are benefits in that

Writability - if one language takes 10 lines and the other takes 2 there are benefits in that as well.

Speed - This one encompases speed to program, debug and run the code. If one language is faster to write in but dog slow to run that's not good.

Functionality - While it is possible for a language to have too much functionality [cough]PL1[/cough] having an appropriate amount of functionality is a good thing. Too little and you spend a lot of time coding simple tasks, too much and you get lost on the manual.

Usability - Is the language good at what it was originally designed for. Period, I'm not writting any web scripts in C++ and I'm not writting any GUIs in PHP.

Also when you're writting a language comparison it generally takes two people. One who is an expert in one language and one who is an expert in the other language. Let's face introductory level tutorials do not give you the language en mass, they give you enough of a taste to get you started. Someone with a vast amount of knowledge about langauge A cannot write a good language comparison between A and B from an introductory tutorial about B.

Here is my final synopsis of which is better PHP or JAVA. If I'm writting a web script then I'm writting in PHP. If I'm writting a desktop app and want platform independence (i.e. an installer for that web script) then I'm going with JAVA.

In college I had a class called Programming Languages. In 14 weeks we learned and programmed in 12 languages. The entire point of that call was, all languages are pretty much equal so pick the one that best fits your needs and use it.

planetsim

Originally posted by drawmack
In college I had a class called Programming Languages. In 14 weeks we learned and programmed in 12 languages. The entire point of that call was, all languages are pretty much equal so pick the one that best fits your needs and use it.

14 weeks 😕 and 12 languages thats pretty quick. Although it probably sort of served its purpose.

I agree with LordShryku about the utter pointlessness of this thread. If you want to compare languages, go somewhere besides the PHPBuilder forums.

Well i think most will agree however if not we can go searching the through the thick archives of this matter.

If you can't be arsed to debug your code before putting it into production or you need an IDE to point everything out to you, well, you're a lazy coder

But i thought good coders were lazy :p

vaaaska

Not that I really have anything interesting to add to this discussion, except that just yesterday evening I finally had it with Java (again) and turned it off in Safari. Too wonky. Yeah, I know it's really an Apple problem, but nevertheless I dread seeing it on webpages.

piersk

Ok, I've just started learning Java for my final year project (yeah, I finally got one sorted :rolleyes: ). Anyway, I think for certain things, Java in webpages is good (take for example the upload applet thats part of Gallery. However, I don't see the point in just sticking it in a web page "just cos you can". However, for some things (mainly programs that need to traverse networks) Java seems to be extremely good.

I have yet to try JSP

drawmack

Piers,
What I've found is that java is good in a couple of situations:

1) Desktop apps where platform independence is important. You really can't achieve this in any other language unless you leave cimpilation up to the end user. While php is getting there in this respect the person would have to install the php interpreter but most people already have java.

2) On the web, if you want the user to be able to visually manipulate a picture and just send in the final result. Java is a good choice.

3) Anytime you want to have live interaction between the web page and the backend. For example an insurance companies claims system could be web based but you really can't wait for page loads between selecting the make and model of a car, however you want to populate the model list dynamically based on the make. Java is the way to go for things like this as well.

In the non java camp. I have heard arguments that SGIML can do number's 2 and 3 but I haven't seen it. For number one if you really want cross platfor you can go web based, but there are times when this isn't a good alternative either.

piersk

I completely agree. Platform independence is the main reason that I'm looking into it at the moment. Twas really badly taught to me in my second year at Uni (seems so long ago...) so that put me off, but having started to read my newly aquired Learning Java (O'Reilly) it's all looking good.

davidjam

Learning Java (O'Reilly)

Piersk: I work on OSX, know nothing about java and want to learn how to write scripts for my web pages --> is this the right book for me?

Re: this thread. I thought that one of the main differences between PHP and Java is that PHP is server-side and Java is client-side (not referring to JSP here). My personal experience as a user has been that PHP delivers pages very fast, even with a 56k connection, but that java is heavy on the download and then with many scripting errors on OSX browsers. That's my two bits.

drawmack

david,
You're talking about applets, these are only a very small part of the java world.

Davy

Originally posted by drawmack
In college I had a class called Programming Languages. In 14 weeks we learned and programmed in 12 languages. The entire point of that call was, all languages are pretty much equal so pick the one that best fits your needs and use it.

WOW!! What college was this and what course??!

Originally posted by yuraupt
PHP and Java they each have their own purpose. PHP is good for a simple websites. Java is better for more complex systems.

I would like to beg to differ. As I believe it...they can do pretty much the same but each has additional uses on top of the other one that make each one useful for the fitting situation. You might have already meant that and I mis read but I know definately PHP is hardly a simple language.

The longer I spend reading on PHP - the further the 'Guru' status seems for me.

I can proudly say I'm a HTML Guru, however [font=courier new]=oD[/font]

drawmack

Originally posted by Davy
WOW!! What college was this and what course??!

East Stroudsburg University - Programming Languages.

I would like to beg to differ. As I believe it...they can do pretty much the same but each has additional uses on top of the other one that make each one useful for the fitting situation. You might have already meant that and I mis read but I know definately PHP is hardly a simple language.

The longer I spend reading on PHP - the further the 'Guru' status seems for me.

Java was originally designed for embedded systems and platform independence. PHP was originally designed for server side scripting of dynamic web pages. Therefor Java is better for embedded systems and platform independence while PHP is better for web scripting.

If you really look at the languages you can see this. Java is strongly typed, which is a feature that really helps prevent coding errors in embedded systems, java also forces the OO paradigm on the programmer which also helps avoid errors in embedded systems. Java bytecode is how they achieve platform independence. Java runs in a virtual machine which always has the same specs no matter what actual machine it is running on.

PHP is weakly typed which helps with rapid development of small programs. PHP offers many functions that are not necessary, but decrease development time (i.e. the array functions).

Every langauge that I know of was designed with a spefic purpose in mind and reaches its full potential when it is being used to achieve that purpose.

yuraupt

Originally posted by Davy

I would like to beg to differ. As I believe it...they can do pretty much the same but each has additional uses on top of the other one that make each one useful for the fitting situation. You might have already meant that and I mis read but I know definately PHP is hardly a simple language.

Differ? The difference is HUGE. Here you are:

php page is parsed everytime the user makes a request for. Meaning everytime it executes SQL queries to the database. (Seems not to be very effective for a websites with 100s concurrent users... But I am not guru. May be there are some techniques to improve the performance.)
java (jsp) file is compiled once. Possible to cache the data on the server side.
php is only for developing dynamic web pages. Java covers much more app types: from desktop apps to applications for cell phones.
- php is simple. HTML file with embeded php code - what can be simpler? Make a file, store it on the server and it works. Java: you will need to install an application server, configure it, it will take some time to see your first page working...

Just for the record: I am not saying that java is better that php or vise versa. They are different. They are for different purpose.

yuraupt

BTW, in the article this thread started from the author mentioned that much more companies are looking Java programmers than for PHP ones.

Can any body explain why?

LordShryku

Originally posted by yuraupt
- php is only for developing dynamic web pages. Java covers much more app types: from desktop apps to applications for cell phones.

That's funny. I have php scripts that run system level maintenance, send out summary emails, parse incoming data, etc that have nothing to do with webpages.

I've also made small desktop applications with php. Apps that have a front end GUI(see php-gtk), and have no relevance to a webpage. Not to say this was the most effective way to do this, but more that I could do it.

On the question of jobs, how does he know? Did he do a worldwide count of job openings? Well, put the theory to the test of what I usually do when I want to find something, I'll google it.

Results 1 - 10 of about 5,530,000 for java jobs.

Results 1 - 10 of about 8,950,000 for php jobs.

Well hell, seems there's more php jobs. Not to say this is an accurate way to see, but neither is trusting some random java programmer's opinion...