C...

jebster

Anyone know of any tutorials for people with good knowledge of PHP wanting to learn C?

I'm having a hard time getting into C.. Are there any alternatives to C that are more similar to PHP? 😃 For slow people like me?

Amoung other things, I think it's mainly the whole strictness with types that is getting to me. Not to mention, in PHP I have three vars $bah which has a value of "Stuff " and $hah which has a value of "is good", then I have $har and I want it to have the value of the other two "Stuff is good" To do that:
$har = $bah . $hah;
In C, I can't even remember how to do it, think you have to use some function? I don't know, but why can't it just be as simple as in PHP? I hate C... 🙁 Plus where is the C manual? Seriously, why is there no manual explaining the language? 😕

I feel really stupid... would getting a computer with Linux, then trying to learn it on that make it any easier? LOL I'm desperate!

Weedpacket

Originally posted by jebster
Plus where is the C manual? Seriously, why is there no manual explaining the language? 😕

But there is! It's been around for decades! As soon as you get started learning about the language you'll hear of K&R.
The language:
http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/standards

The C Standard Library
http://www.tcnj.edu/~cs/doc/CStdLib.html

GNU's C Library
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/libc.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/

You probably overlooked the C manual because it's so small: it's not a very large language.

As for whether it's worthwhile putting a Linux partition on your machine and learning there, I'd say yes: Any full Linux distro will come with gcc and piles of development libraries and utilities and documentation.

planetsim

The language itself is not very big however it has such a huge amount of libraries such as GUI, Socket you name it its there.

The K&R book is great I have it and read a small portion not for the C Beginner.

Some more links
http://www.cppreference.com/
http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/CE.html

jebster

Sigh I just typed out my nice (big) reply to this and my computer pooped out on me.. So I just sent MS a nice little email thanking them for there nice stable OS.... Now to retype it all:

Ugh, that reminds me, in PHP say I wanted to learn something by downloading a script and fiddling with it, it always will work, if the program worked for the guy who wrote it, there is very little chance it won't work for me! In C however, I can't count the number of times I have downloaded programs and gotten dozens of errors when trying to compile them. And I almost always will try them all in Dev-Cpp, djgpp, and lcc-win32. No matter which I use, I almost always get errors. 🙁

Those books, would they be worth me spending what little money I have on them? Cause they are quite old! Normally I buy my computer books at London Drugs when they have there computer book sale, computer books ranging from 6.99 to 15.99. So $70 is a lot for me to spend on a book!

What distro would you recommend for a person who has never used Linux? I am going computer shopping on Friday to buy a nice cheap computer to replace my old compaq(500mhz celeron, feel the power) and I have a spare 40gig HD to put in it, that I can put linux on. From what I have seen, I like the look of Gentoo, and Debian. But I like I said, I have never used linux, so what do I know? :p

And I'll read over those manuals and other links, but they are nothing like PHP.net from what I have seen 🙁

I'm a young dog finding it hard to learn new tricks 🙁

planetsim

Well actually it never will be either PHP is a much larger language than C believe it or not.

The K&R book is based very much on Unix and with saying that is very nix based. However from what ive read so far all examples will work in Windows and other OS's as they use the standard library. As for buying it, its like Programming Perl every programmer in Perl will have this by there side although most will get this when they have a fair knowledge in the language. I got it the K&R book straight away however still being relatively new to C most of it goes over my head however with reading more into it im understanding a lot more. So with saying that you can put that one off a bit however it has some great examples in there so dont put it off too long.

The Deitel & Deitel C: How to Program is suppose to be another good book however its expensive I have the 2nd edition and it didnt teach many great programming habits, so I got Sams Teach yourself C in 21days dont be fooled I looked at it as a joke at first but it was surprisingly a great book one which I recommend after reading all the C part of it. However the title is misleading it will teach you the basics the rest is up to practice and once finished this book you should understand a lot more references to other APIs out there.

[edit]
OS's there are some nice beginner ones im using Fedora Core 2 its alright Im looking to venture into maybe Gentoo or something else soonish. Gentoo is good but I wouldnt recommend a new linux user to it its not a very easy install. Debain isnt either but it has massive amounds of documentation I havent had a chance to use Debian maybe that will be next for me. Another good beginner Linux Distro from what ive been heard is slackware ive never used it so I cannot comment on it
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Shrike

Perhaps you should look at C# or Java as something more akin to PHP, but a more general purpose language. There's still a steeper learning curve in either though.

jebster

The library here has Sams Teach yourself C in 21days, so I will borrow that, and try to read it through.

Can y'all give me some examples of programs to write? Just like things to try and do? Nothing to basic.. Like "Print 'Hello World'" on the screen, I can do that LOL, a lot of things of various skill levels would be nice... 😃

Perhaps you should look at C# or Java as something more akin to PHP, but a more general purpose language. There's still a steeper learning curve in either though.

I have a couple(3) books on Java.. but I am not much for OO programming. C#, isn't that more OO too? Plus it's MS, and don't you have to pay for tools to program in it? 😕

I do plan on atleast giving my Java books a read, and seeing if I catch on. But I still would like to learn C or a language like it, just not so mean LOL

planetsim

Well since im still learning Im currently making a console Black Jack game. Theres a tonne of things you can create a more simplistic version of VI.

Secondly you can use a simple text editor for C# and I believe there is a free C# compiler available.

By the way I should warn you C is very low level so the flexibility you are use to in PHP will go out the door things like not defining variables types, memory allocation (this is probably a hard thing in C), pointers (another hard one with C).

Dynamic Arrays e.g. $array[] = "this"; dont exist all require a numeric index however that doesnt mean you can create dynamic arrays. As small as it is its still quite hard however understand C, C++ basics will be fairly easy as well.

Weedpacket

Originally posted by planetsim
The K&R book is based very much on Unix and with saying that is very nix based.

To be precise, Kernighan and Ritchie invented C in order to write Unix.

As for things to try... Emulate (parts of?) some of the standard shell utilities (cmp, md5sum, sort, nl, uu(en|de)code, split, printf, and cat spring to mind); a program to make change given a list of currency denominations and a quantity to make from them; a program to solve the n-Queens problem (place n Queens on an n×n chessboard so that none attacks any other). One of the advantages of the utility emulation idea is that you'll have the source code for the real things available (assuming you've got the GNU versions).

jebster

Originally posted by Weedpacket
As for things to try... Emulate (parts of?) some of the standard shell utilities (cmp, md5sum, sort, nl, uu(en|de)code, split, printf, and cat spring to mind) ... One of the advantages of the utility emulation idea is that you'll have the source code for the real things available (assuming you've got the GNU versions).

First I'm going to have to look those up to find out what exactly they do LOL

Originally posted by Weedpacket
a program to make change given a list of currency denominations and a quantity to make from them

Can you give me an example of what you mean?

Originally posted by Weedpacket
a program to solve the n-Queens problem (place n Queens on an n×n chessboard so that none attacks any other).

:eek: That sounds fun...

Thank you 🙂

goldbug

Originally posted by planetsim
Secondly you can use a simple text editor for C# and I believe there is a free C# compiler available.

From MS even! It's part of the .NET SDK, if my memory serves me.

Weedpacket

Originally posted by jebster
Can you give me an example of what you mean?

Okay, I've got coin denomination 5¢, 10¢, 20¢, 50¢, $1, and $2. To make $1.45 in change using as few coins as possible would use a $1 coin, two 20¢ coins, and one 5¢ coin. $1.55 = $1+50¢+5¢; and 80¢ = 50¢+20¢+10¢.

First I'm going to have to look those up to find out what exactly they do LOL

See? Linux would be a better platform to learn on 😃. These are all capable of describing what they do themselves by means of a command-line switch ("split --help", for example). That help is more of a quick reference/reminder, but they do come with their own manuals which are also accessible from the shell itself (another standard utility is man - "man split" will give you split's manual). There are enough copies of all these manuals up on the web now that Googling for "man split" will generally have much the same effect.

pohopo

I prefer the strictness of C over non strict languages (VB/PHP/etc) and it really is not so bad once you get used to it. And processor wise it is more efficient.

And the C# compiler is free, you can code it in notepad, and they do have a free editor for .NET called Web Matrix. It was built by MS for those that do not want to shell out the money for Visual Studio.

The downside (for many) is you have to use a Windows server.

jebster

Originally posted by Weedpacket
Okay, I've got coin denomination 5¢, 10¢, 20¢, 50¢, $1, and $2. To make $1.45 in change using as few coins as possible would use a $1 coin, two 20¢ coins, and one 5¢ coin. $1.55 = $1+50¢+5¢; and 80¢ = 50¢+20¢+10¢.

ahh, now I'll get it! I give it a go. 🙂

Originally posted by Weedpacket
See? Linux would be a better platform to learn on 😃. These are all capable of describing what they do themselves by means of a command-line switch ("split --help", for example). That help is more of a quick reference/reminder, but they do come with their own manuals which are also accessible from the shell itself (another standard utility is man - "man split" will give you split's manual). There are enough copies of all these manuals up on the web now that Googling for "man split" will generally have much the same effect.

Well, lets just hope I find a computer so I can install linux and leave this MS crap behind 🙂

So, C# programs, they won't work on Linux right? Cause I think I'm going to leave MS completely, except for games.. I have had enough headaches from them to last the rest of my life.

Weedpacket

Originally posted by jebster
Well, lets just hope I find a computer so I can install linux and leave this MS crap behind 🙂

Most (at least the major) Linux distributions will give you the option to install Linux on a computer that already has Windows installed, allowing you to run both on the same machine. Before installation, you defragment the hard drive (to shove all the Windows stuff up to one end), and then you can install Linux in the space that's left. Linux will still be able to access the Windows filesystem (Linux knows about Windows filesystems) but as far as Windows is concerned it will mean that the hard drive looks smaller (because it doesn't recognise any filesystems other than those used by Windows).

OTTOMH I think 10-20GB is a reasonable size for a first Linux partition.

(As ever it's more complicated than that under the surface: many Linux installation processes will create two or three partitions, possibly using different filesystems - one for applications, one for user data, and one for swap space. Windows lumps them all into one file system (using a "Documents and Settings" folder and a swapfile instead). But not to worry - in Linux it all still ends up looking like a single big drive - and in Windows a single small drive!)

planetsim

If your only planning on using it for programming and dont require too much even 6-8gb can be sufficient some Linux Distros will require 2Gb however depending on your Install you may not have to use 2Gb.

From there make sure you install gcc as thats the compiler however im pretty sure most linux distros will make sure this is installed regardless as its required for building programs from source.

If your not use to Linux or never used it before it will be daunting at first, however dont let that get in the way, you will find you use the Shell Quite a bit, so learn some of the basic commands. Like changing a directory, moving files, deleting files, finding files etc.

Im not sure on some of the Linux GUIs out there hoever KDE and Gnome have GUIs for this to make it easier however the Shell will be more powerful you plan on doing things with certain file names.

jebster

Well, as long as 40Gigs is enough space I'm good. Cause if I do end up getting a computer, linux is going to get it's own hard drive 🙂

Is using linux without a GUI similar to DOS? Cause if it is, then it should be no problem. 🙂 And if it is more difficult, I have plenty of time to learn!

I'm playing around with Java(1.4.2_06) right now, and was wondering if it had a manual like the one you can download for PHP in CHM format?

Man soon I am going to be an elite hacker(note: I do not mean cracker) with knowledge I will posses. :rolleyes: :p hehe

planetsim

You probably should get at least good at a language before moving on.

This is something that may help http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/ its a lot bigger than PHPs Manual.

[edit]
Sorry didnt read the download part of it http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html#docs

I dont know if its similar layout as the other but you should probably book mark the other link as well.
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jebster

Originally posted by planetsim
You probably should get at least good at a language before moving on.

This is something that may help http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/ its a lot bigger than PHPs Manual.

[edit]
Sorry didnt read the download part of it http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html#docs

I dont know if its similar layout as the other but you should probably book mark the other link as well.
[/edit]

Thanks, and learning a couple at a time isn't hard for me, well, no harder then one at a time(:o), once it's up inside my brain it fine. Besides, I'm just fiddling with Java to see what it's like 😉

planetsim

Well once you know the basics of Programming learning a couple at a time isnt a hard feat however you will never get any good at them considering your sharing your time on other languages. However I have looked at Java its quite an easy language however there are just so many classes and different sections in Java for someone that just plays with it for a short time will probably need to relearn what each class does (this is the only thing I hate about Java).