How much is this worth?

gufmn

Ok, so I've been working with php for about 2 years now, only seriously for about 1. I've been asked to give a quote on a job that will probably take me a couple weeks to finish(although I'm sure there are a few here that could hack it out in a day and a half).

I'm basically trying to figure out how much to charge. I have an idea of what I want, but I'm just wondering what others would charge for the same work.

The job is for a car dealership. Not the entire site, just the on-line inventory. Users would need to be able to perform custom searches by make, model, options etc... and request information from the dealership about specific vehicles via mail().

I would also have to create the admin section so salespeople could add, remove, edit inventory which means user management as well.

Any opinions?

thorpe

what is your time worth? the last job i did (in asp) that took two weeks, i charged $1500. that worked out to be roughly $21 / hr, over a 70 hour period. and the customer was VERY happy with that quote. leading me to believe, i may not have charged enough... but that is what MY time is worth to me.

really, its up to you. what is your time worth?

gufmn

Yeah, I was thinking it would take somewhere around 60-80 hours and planned on charging $25/hour. I was just curious since someone more experienced might be able to crank it out in 30-40 hours yet would (and should) get paid more per hour due to their higher skill level. So looking at it that way, the job should pretty much cost the same no matter who does it. It's just a matter of how fast it gets done.

I guess I'm just trying to get a clue as to what diferent people at diferent skill levels would charge for the same project, and figure out where I fall into that range.

piersk

I've posted it before, and I'll probably post it again. this is a really good way of putting it.

Jason_Batten

I'm in the exactly same position as you mate. Except my client wants the whole site and its 'real estate'.

I was thinking 12.50/hour and gave myself 96 hours which would be 1200. I'm still new to PHP but know a lot and already racing through making my own CMS. I'm more worried about if I have bitten off more than I can chew :bemused:

My problem is I tweak and tweak and tweak and tweak and tweak until I can't tweak no more! which takes up too much time. I'm also use to designing on the go, sometimes I'll draw up a quick plan but the end result is always much different. PHP seems to be less forgiving and wants you to plan ahead...

The other week I wrote a caculator type script in no time at all then spent like 40 minutes making the display messages look pretty and all that :rolleyes:

Please help me fight my tweaking addiction! 🙁

pohopo

I'm also use to designing on the go, sometimes I'll draw up a quick plan but the end result is always much different. PHP seems to be less forgiving and wants you to plan ahead...

That is any language. A good project plan can significantly speed up development time and signficantly reduces the chance of failure as you see problems before you start coding.

gufmn

I've found that breaking your code up into smaller pieces and using includes for much of what is displayed is helpful. If you need to change something, it's much easier to find.

Also, I recommend giving your client a few images of what the site could look like and let them decide which one they like. Or better yet, have them give you some images showing exactly what they want 🙂

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. I quoted $1750 in case anyone's wondering.

Jason_Batten

Cheers for the pointers guys. PHP is easy to grasp but the transition from vage plans to specific and detailed is the hard part 😃

gufmn, What time frame did you estimate? and when you get paid its your shout down the pub 😉

All, It's all up to personal preferance but what do you think is a better way to charge. A price for the whole project or an hourly rate? because once you manage to whip PHP into line and you can fart out dynamic code quickly the hourly rate must become some what unattractive?

Kudose

I'm in the same boat. I love this programming stuff and only crave to learn more. (that's why i've been around for 1000 some posts) But the lack of income due to lack of self-confidnce (not that I suck or anything, I just cant see myself asking someone for 10k to develop thier website) has forced me to eBay. Which sucks, because I am forced to do retarded things like this: eBay listing

It shoots myself in the foot, and every other credable developer.

I'll learn to charge real rates though. :queasy:

Thanks for that link to the page detailing some charge info.

gufmn

I estimated 60-80 hours. The actual figure I gave was for 70 hours.

LordShryku

Originally posted by NetNerd85
It's all up to personal preferance but what do you think is a better way to charge. A price for the whole project or an hourly rate? because once you manage to whip PHP into line and you can fart out dynamic code quickly the hourly rate must become some what unattractive?

Hourly if possible. Customers can be very fickle, and your tweaking may become the neccesity. The orignial vision that they express to you may change 20 times during the course of design, and then 20 more times once you're done. On a project you originally thought would take you one week, but after all of the changes have come through, you've spent nearly two months working on, you'd be slapping yourself for charging a flat rate. If this is the route you must go, you'd want to specify up front that changes made to the original plan will cause changes in the original price.

Weedpacket

Originally posted by gufmn
I estimated 60-80 hours. The actual figure I gave was for 70 hours.

That could be a mistake. If you estimate 60-80 hours then you should have quoted for something closer to 90. No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

RossC0

I try and charge for a functional and technical specification before agreeing to provide a quote.

Once the spec is written, I have worked out the logic (makes it easier to code) and then I have an excellent idea on the number of hours required to do the job.

If the quote is too much for the customer - then I haven't lost out as they paid me to write the specs.

If I get the green light, then I have exactly what the customer requires and there is no confusion of whats expected for the price.

So at the sign off of the project the customer can't just have a new idea and demand its added before paying me!

Shrike

My first experience of freelance work wasn't good. Initially costed at £2,500 (around $4,500 I guess) which I thought was fantastic. The client had written a very detailed spec of the project - also a great thing to have. But as the project progressed it became very apparent that the spec was lacking severely in detail - mainly because the client wasn't really sure what was required. This led to alot of changes to the spec being done for free - not just the goalposts were just moved - they moved the pitch, the stadium and the carpark too. The moral is make sure both parties know what to expect and only deliver that expectation. If the client wants a change :- "Sure no problem that will cost you X amount".

After reading the blog which piersk posted I whole heartedly agree about not underselling. I do some work for a guy who used to work at my company and I did it at a bargain basement price. Now of course he wants entire websites built for peanuts. The moral here is don't let your friends abuse that relationship 😉

I've now started doing some freelance for another person and I sure am going to tread very carefully when it comes to large projects.

gufmn

Originally posted by Weedpacket
That could be a mistake. If you estimate 60-80 hours then you should have quoted for something closer to 90. No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

I hear ya. I made sure to explain that this was just an estimate and that the actual cost may vary depending on the exact amount of hours it takes.

pohopo

IMHO, you need to define every page and every function for each page and put this in a statement of work that the client agrees to and signs. Near the bottom of your SOW you should have a paragraph explaining the change control process along with the additional costs for additional changes.

If you make this stuff visible in the beginning then when they do want a change they will know to expect a charge. If you just throw out additional charges from left field they will feel you are ripping them off and might not want to work with you again.

The other advantage to the SOW is it forces you to write down everything you need to build. With this it will be much easier to determine how long it will take to build. To determine a project size from the top of your head is the worst possible thing to do. In the long run it will only hurt yourself.

Jason_Batten

Do you think one of yah more expierenced guys/gals could help us newbies out with a template for a SOW or maybe just a general example 😕