Unspecific Client & Design Legal Concerns

Jason_Batten

Hey all,

I'm currently developing a site for a client. He works for a Real Estate office and is opening his own business. The problem is he keeps pointing me to the web site of the business he currently works under for reference. It's alright for a general reference but he fails to answer my specific questions, although this is over email, is there a certain way to ask, would a slap help? Perhaps a phone call, although that’s the worst invention and I dislike using it and meeting is difficult with distance and a time.

The design he wants is generally the same as the business web site he works for. I do not want to rip the design off. I can tweak it but he wants even the same colours. How can I break it to him that he might have to change?

Any normal Joe Bloggs I'd slap into the corner but he's an extremely successful real estate agent.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers 🙂

Shrike

You should tell him that he needs to distance himself from his old company in order to make his new company a success. And on the web the way to do that is to offer improved services and develop a new look and feel.

It really does sound like he needs a slap though 😉

Weedpacket

There have been legal suits filed even in China over web site plagiarism in the past: so unless you want to get caught up with accusations of copyright and/or trademark infringement, you'd best make it clear that such a rip-off would be basically illegal. (And you would be caught up - it sounds like you already have the contract.)

Then again, IANAL, and having a database-driven website is a patent violation.

vaaaska

Not to be crass, but don't touch it. Get this person straightened out about what you do or just drop it. In the long run, this will be a good lesson learned as well.

BuzzLY

It sounds to me like this guy does not want to be innovative and different -- it looks as if he sees the success of the company he is currently working for, and wants to cash in on it. That is highly unethical, and illegal. Don't coddle him -- tell it like it is, and explain to him, under no uncertain terms, that you will not help him plagiarize his old company's site.

If you are professional, and stand firm on your business ethics, either he will fire you (thereby freeing you up from any association -- make sure everything's in writing!), or he'll respect you and listen to what you have to say.

The phone is a good tool, and in many ways better than email. Face-to-face is even better, and is probably the best way to handle this situation. I don't recommend trying to resolve this issue via email.

Jason_Batten

Thank you guys for your replies. They are all very helpful!

I should have mentioned, sorry. I scored the job through my brothers work :o, he works for a 3d modelling and product design business. I'm also doing their web site but was contracted to do this other job, so would it be best to go to "my boss"? I told him last week we should get the client to change the colours. Haven't heard anything back on it. "My boss" is also designing the logos and all that for the clients new business. A stroke of luck they work in the same building complex too.

pohopo

Most clients are very bad explaining what they need and many times are not totally sure what they need. When you work with a client you need to keep that in mind so you do not get frustrated. They hired you because you know the web and know what works, use that experience to build them what you think is best.

First off I would do a prototype for the client and let them look it and give feedback. It is important you are both thinking the same thing. If you expect too much from them before you start anything then nothing will ever happen.

vaaaska

Originally posted by pohopo
Most clients are very bad explaining what they need and many times are not totally sure what they need. When you work with a client you need to keep that in mind so you do not get frustrated.

Yeah...before I packed up my little shop and moved to Europe I would say that probably 75% of my time was spent chasing other things around for clients (the phone was practically glued to my ear). It's called "business development". I once even got a call from a state politician...I was working for her husband on a mini-site for his book launch and she wanted me to tell her what the tax ramifications were for selling the book online. What? You want ME to tell you?

And the countless projects I worked on where I ultimately ended up either writing the copy myself or hiring somebody to do it. Sure, I can write slick copy that makes you blend in with everybody else and you'll pay for it, but it's not something I expected to be doing a few days before the project HAD to be finished (or sent to the printer) because it was your job from day one.

I know it's the same with building apps and such. This is a reason why design can be so expensive...

Oddly enough, I'm writing a strange little book to give to a client about how to get by in the world cheap by choosing one good family of fonts and building the ground up from there. I hope it works. I'm not going to use the term 'branding' - not even once. I think. 😉

My goal in life, now that I think about it, is to relegate myself to obsolesence by giving people (clients) enough information to make decisions and do things without my involvement. To-date, I've never been successful so I'm not sure why I even try. Wow, I'm just now realizing this...

Elizabeth

Originally posted by vaaaska
My goal in life, now that I think about it, is to relegate myself to obsolesence by giving people (clients) enough information to make decisions and do things without my involvement. To-date, I've never been successful so I'm not sure why I even try. Wow, I'm just now realizing this...

That used to be my goal too, but it seemed that the clients who actually wanted to learn and give it a shot took way more of my time (and were way more frustrating) than the ones who just said "make my site do this..." and left me alone. Needless to say I've since altered my goals accordingly 🙂

pohopo

than the ones who just said "make my site do this..." and left me alone.

These are the best clients. Though sometimes these clients say they don't care, but once you create the site they want 100 changes. That is where the signed SOW comes into play.

Jason_Batten

WOOT! in the clear and have freedom to design!

I sent the client a gallery of basic designs and he chose the classic left-column navigation style 😃

I replied with asking if he still wanted the same colours :o

vaaaska

Originally posted by Elizabeth
That used to be my goal too, but it seemed that the clients who actually wanted to learn and give it a shot took way more of my time (and were way more frustrating) than the ones who just said "make my site do this..." and left me alone. Needless to say I've since altered my goals accordingly 🙂

It's punk rock coarsing through my veins - DIY. If I can do it, you can too.

Yeah, it doesn't always work that way. I thought everybody could use a computer, make logos and build webpages (and do copywriting, make web applications, setup documents for prints, manage large budgets, do community surveys, create marketing programs, think for themselves, etc, etc).

I've been wrong all these years...I should go to cooking school or become a social worker I guess.

dalecosp

The most successful site I've ever completed was one where the client simply said ... "here's our brochure, here's our price list, put it on the web, and make it so they can clicky-clicky and send in an order ..."

I was done in a couple of weeks at a rock-bottom cost. No time wasted on anything, pure development.

If everyone could do that, it'd be a simpler world.

OTOH, my wife works part-time for an insurance agent, and half the time he won't even sit down to dictate her a letter. That's probably why we registered his domain almost 18 months ago and he still doesn't have a site. I know him personally, but "buy your insurance from Bob because the web designer knows him and he's a really nice guy" just doesn't have the ring I think we need in a professional web site. :rolleyes:

Oh well, my site's crappy, too. 😃

Weedpacket

Bumping this old thread because now the quote has been explained.....

dalecosp wrote:
"here's our brochure, here's our price list, put it on the web, and make it so they can clicky-clicky and send in an order ..."

Ah HA! So this is you!

dalecosp

😃 Heh.

Well, I didn't spend enough time to read the whole thread, but I'd have to say "no it ain't" offhand.

I chopped the brochure apart and ran each photo through the scanner at high-res. I hand transcribed the order form into HTML, .doc, and .txt. I did more Javascript than any other site to date, making it so that you could roll over names of products (small shop, short product list, maybe 10?) and have the image in page center change to match your mouse position (assuming, of course, that the page had been open long enough to load all the images). I created a handler for the HTML order form, and a "contact" form and handler.

And, come to think of it, I believe I got an email from them recently. Four years later, and they've dropped one product and quit prepayment of shipping costs on the biggest ones. So, I'll get to go back an see how terrible I was at code layout in 2002... 😉

Jason_Batten

2002... that brings back some memories. I think I had my Duke Nukem Forever website on Geocities... Also started being a news editor for a gaming website I think... very fuzzy year indeed.

If I could only go back in time and re-do this project... that damn kid beats past self