no one wants to learn javascript

thorpe

[rant]
anyone get the impression that allot of people learning web developement these days wont touch javascript? i meen, ive been seeing a hell of allot of questions like "how do a create a dynamic menu WITHOUT using javascript?"

i know allot of browsers are disabling js to a point these days, but really, has it lost its place?

there are still so many client-side jobs that are best suited to client-side technoligies. why should a make another trip to the server when i could get it done more efficiently on the client while the user also gets the benifits of interaction without refreshing.

i just cant understand how anyone who really wants to get into web dev can think they can get away without knowing javascript. i dont get it!!!
[/rant]

planetsim

So what has this sprung off. Im trying to do a lot more things with javascript recently infact Im trying to learn a bit more to get some pages setup for use as AJAX (damn that name reminds me of a cleaning product).

However with saying that there are particular websites where I urge strongly against the use of javascript. With saying that the XHTML Strict 1.0 standard isnt exactly making javascript the best of friends. Many things have been disabled like target and making it more for the user instead of allowing javascript the freedom. There are both good and bad points for both, Javascript can be used maliciously.

Another is browsers, not the ones that have it disabled although it is starting to increase a slowly but browsers work so differently and what should be somewhat of an easy task can be made quite difficuilt for it to work in all browsers, myself included will have to agree strongly its one reason I think AJAX is going to have a tough time really gaining a lot of popularity in places where such things can and probably would enhance user interaction.

Jason_Batten

*holds up his JavaScript book

I intend to learn. Right now my focus is PHP but I know I NEED javascript to do things that PHP cant do or can not do well.

Software companies that make dodgy security programs just try to scare people into thinking that javascript and cookies are going to kill you, your credit card, your children and your pc :rolleyes:

leatherback

Originally posted by NetNerd85
*holds up his JavaScript book

Software companies that make dodgy security programs just try to scare people into thinking that javascript and cookies are going to kill you, your credit card, your children and your pc :rolleyes:

Good point. It is not the actual risk, butr the risk people think they run. And as more -let me say older- people get on the web (Like my dad, ~60 yrs) who really do not have any idea of PC's, but do want to surf and send the occasional email, you will get more clients that just do what the provider advices.

ANyway.. I have some sites which use javascript, but each site is fully functional without them.. So I have forms which calculate the costs directly, without submitting. But once the form is submitted, I recalculte the costs, check against a hidden variable (If it is set, the javascript worked) and either rport back on the user (javascript didn't work) or process the form (javascript worked).

BuzzLY

I have to agree with you -- I believe there is a bit too much paranoia when it comes to Javascript.

That said, however, I only use Javascript as a "convenience." For most of my sites, I have to assume that a user has Javascript turned off, and I have to control things from the server side. So, form validation happens on the server. The thing is, when I mis-enter something on a site, I prefer active feedback (such as red text telling me I forgot to enter my phone number, etc.) to some dialog box that pops up. The dialog can be helpful, and save a user from having to re-submit a form. However, a well-designed page won't leave the user feeling like she just wasted her time filling out a form only to discover a single missing field requires her to re-enter all of her data.

The thing is, almost anything you can do with Javascript, you can do in some other way. Form validation, dynamic content, image pre-loading, etc. can all be done in other ways. I like Javascript, and I believe it has its place. But if it were to go away, I wouldn't lose sleep. There are plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cat.

vaaaska

Originally posted by thorpe
[rant]
anyone get the impression that allot of people learning web developement these days wont touch javascript?

I don't get that impression. If you look at the cutting-edge things being built these days they are using javascript.

BasecampHQ.com
Tadalist.com
Flickr.com
gmail.google.com
veen.com/jeff/archives/000739.html

Ajax is being touted as something pretty good. Apparently even Macromedia has been looking at it with dour eyes. (It's interesting that Macromedia has never really made any money whatsoever from the whole Flash thing).

With regards to people turning off javascript...let them. They'll just have to turn it back on when they deal with alot of things - and alot of good things.