I'm afraid that despite your protestations at the end, you undid yourself at the beginning of that post:

"we have stolen their language. "

We started it, we made it, so rasp the rest of you septics out there.

You think american is unsexy? You should here black country. shudders

    Hey, it is called English. There's nothing we can do about that. But when I said we've 'stolen' it, I meant it in the same sense that we 'stole' Man United. 🙂

      Pah, like I give a monkeys about Man U - I'm from Walsall and now living in London.

      I dislike Man United on prinicple. I'm forced to watch their matches though cos my wife and father in law are avid supporters.

      That said, it's nice to see a UK team doing OK in Europe once in a while. I'll be a pensioner before I see Aston Villa or Walsall in those leagues.

      mysql->DROP TABLE hope.

        sneakyimp wrote:

        It's worth noting that the OED was started around 1860 whereas Noah Webster had already published his first dictionary--A Compendious Dictionary of the English Language--in 1806, complete with altered spellings and everything. One might argue that Robert Cawdrey's 1604 effort was the first English dictionary, but its title should put to rest any claim that English spellings are the 'correct' ones: "A Table Alphabeticall, Conteyning and Teaching the True Writing and Understanding of Hard Words, Borrowed from the Hebrew, Greek, Latin or French, &c." If you read any writings of "the Queen's English" from around that time, you'll find that spelling varies wildly.

        Wow. Where do you get your research???

        Edit: I've always wondered how conversations get from something as technical as "SQL joins" and end up all the way at "History of English Dictionaries" and "Man United". 😃

          His information comes from the yahoo entry (about 5 down) when you do a google on "first english dictionary" - almost word for word.

          Sounds like my English Degree research 🙂

          I think time of night and alcohol consumption MAY have something to do with the lines of conversation

            actually, i usually go to http://en.wikipedia.org

            The site is often criticized for lack of academic oversight (any idiot can edit the entries) but I take faith in the fact that any interested parties are battling it out over every entry. It's really amazing actually.

            EDIT: I'm also reading Elizabeth and Mary, all the references to writings at the time have almost incomprehensible spellings.

            It's actually got a great entry on normalization (yes with a 'Z'--maybe it's a biased source?):

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization

            As for the wandering thread issue...it might have something to do with how DRY database topics can be. 🙁

            Cheer up Toby, my neighbor from Brighton area likes Plymouth Argyle (sp?).

              Spelling is spot on, not bad for a Yank!

                Wikipedia is a great reference - I use it a lot too. In fact, I saw that article when I first posted this thread. (and yes, I realized it with a "z" - I wonder how many other z/s debates we can find on Wikipedia?).

                Hey! I like my dry database topic! (Actually, the only thing I like dry is a good dry vermouth).

                Actually, I didn't mean this thread specifically, I was just commenting on how conversations anywhere tend to do that...check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversation for more info.

                  sneakyimp wrote:

                  Hey, it is called English. There's nothing we can do about that. But when I said we've 'stolen' it, I meant it in the same sense that we 'stole' Man United. 🙂

                  And you can keep them. :evilgrin: I only wish you could move them to Brooklyn, or Jersey while you're at it. Take Arsenal with then too.

                  sneakyimp
                  Now, I did not claim that the OED was the first dictionary, or the best. But it is now the generally accepted reference for what is or is not an English word, and how it should be spelt. And that applies even for the words we've stolen from other languages.

                  Now, as someone who was not diagnosed as dixlexsick untill his 30s (teachers did not know about such things in the 1960s), I'm in no pozition to criticize anywons' spelling, or grammer. But I do love a good arguement. 😃

                  But really, citing The Rolling Stones accents 😕

                  Oh, and by the way Toby, most of what the kids are speaking these days is not Yank slang, it's that nastiest of all slangs Jamaican Yardie. They get it from yank hip-hop which has been infected by it as well.

                    Ahhh... but my siblings are 'nice' kids and aren't exposed to that kind of 'bling' nonsense.

                    I agree though, the quality of English spoken, written and even standards of comprehension are sadly lacking over here. I had to teach Shakespeare's King Lear to a group of 12-13 year olds when i did my degree (this is about 5 years ago now) and it was horrific. Most of them couldn't even read the most simple words.

                    The ear is where we pick most stuff up, 'cos they sure as hell ain't reading it.

                    You're not a Leeds supporter are you? My boss is as it happens.

                      :eek: LEEDS !! [shudders] Lor luvus no.

                      Hammers fan here 😃 (West Ham for the uninitaited)

                      I work with a load of Leeds fans though. Laughed at me n James when we went down - now the laugh's on them: they won't be coming back up for years and years.

                      Youngsters all across the developed world: Ignorant :o and PROUD of it :glare:

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