Search for Java resources relating to OOP. I recently read a chapter in a Java 2 book on OOP. It was worth paying 5 dollars for the out-dated book just to get the OOP information. Also laughing at the excitement over applets was good too, best comedy book ever! 
PHP: Object Oriented Programming
Hey, NetNerd85, thanks for the info! i like the info in your signature, by the way.
it's interesting that so many here have referenced Java as a good source of understanding OOP. why is that? i mean, obviously, there is something to be learned from the applicatoin of the OOP concept to Java programming, but why in particular is it best to start off by investigating it in terms of Java?
I have actually planned, as the third body of a formidible triumvirate, to learn what i can of Java in addition to PHP and CSS. This is because of my aspiration to become more involved in web development as a career, or if nothing else, as a freelance supplement to what i'm doing now. but, that is the topic for another post which i'm going to write, so it will wait for its own thread.
again, thank you all for entertaining my interest in OOP! i'm pleased to see that some discussion ensued.
i would think there are many, but a few that come to mind are C, Basic, and VB.
wtf VB and C do have OOP features they use classes and just stating basic alright some of them do not have oop but most basic compilers nowdays have oop features if not afull implementation thats like saying MSIE does'nt have HTML or CSS support because it does not fully implement them
ATS16805 wrote:it's interesting that so many here have referenced Java as a good source of understanding OOP. why is that? i mean, obviously, there is something to be learned from the applicatoin of the OOP concept to Java programming, but why in particular is it best to start off by investigating it in terms of Java?
There are two widely-popular OO languages around (by "widely popular" I mean ones that figure prominently in job descriptions). C++ and Java.
C++ has been around since the '80s, and is excitingly baroque (its inventor has said that he doesn't expect anyone to fully understand it - it turns out that this includes himself). At least some part of this is because valid C programs had to continue to be valid as C++. But some parts of it just seem downright gratuitous.
Java was developed in the early-mid '90s (and you can tell I'm not bothering to look these dates up) and is much simpler. It misses many many of the constructs that C++ has and (for the most part) is better for it. It's the current darling of many programmers and CEOs.
Other OO languages are around, such as Python, Smalltalk, and Objective-C, but (unfortunately) they don't get the corporate recognition, don't get the coverage, and hence don't get the books written about them (Python is a hackers' language - a lot of its users are Perl refugees; Smalltalk is very elegant; and Objective-C lives on in Mac OSX).
Whether a language is OO or not ... as I see it there are three ways you could interpret that question for any given language:
It is possible to write in the language using an OO paradigm. This is trivial to the point of uselessness - all programming languages would qualify under this criterion.
It provides OO constructs, though does not force you to use them or the paradigm (Javascript, C++, PHP).
It requires an OO approach to program design (Java, Smalltalk).
I guess another criterion would be whether it was designed with OO in mind (C++, Java, Python) or not (PHP, BASIC, FORTRAN).
i realize it's kind of "off the subject", and i don't mean to derail the thread, and i DO intend to research this subject in great detail as soon as i am able (as i mentioned earlier my desire to learn). actually, perhaps this IS the best time to inquire...
what is the difference between Java and Javascript? (of course, i don't expect a 400 level collegiate thesis, just as simple an answer as possible-- or write a novel, if you wish!)
and, considering that difference, which should i, as an aspiring "web developer", concentrate my efforts on as a "beginner"? my guess is that i will eventually need to dabble in both. i would very much appreciate some guidance in that direction.
thanks!
As an aspiring web developer at your beginners phase I hink you should spend a breif time maybe one month or two dabbling in javascript. I emphasis breif because too many people gat caught up doing fancy little status bar effects and call themselves web developers but really they let the side down.
After This you may wish to consider learning actionscript so get a 30-day-trial of Macromedia flash and experiment with it for 28 days then you can decide if yu want it but again you will not dilly dally for too long or you may become too obsessed with bandwidth sucking flash
Finally then you can get onto HTML and CSS just skim read the whole subject build a couple of W3C compliant pages if you like and then learn Java Trust Me on this one it will take some time and for anyone without previous OOP experience it can be an absolute mind bender
OH and As a foot note try to keep away from using third party applets, javascripts, css files, html designs and fla files you will learn far more from looking through the source seeing what it does and adding a mental note of what each peice of code does
if(object::newbie == stuck){
Ask For Help
}
I'd like to see somebody cover the topic of OOP in comic book form...
ATS16805 wrote:i realize it's kind of "off the subject", and i don't mean to derail the thread, and i DO intend to research this subject in great detail as soon as i am able (as i mentioned earlier my desire to learn). actually, perhaps this IS the best time to inquire...
what is the difference between Java and Javascript? (of course, i don't expect a 400 level collegiate thesis, just as simple an answer as possible-- or write a novel, if you wish!)
and, considering that difference, which should i, as an aspiring "web developer", concentrate my efforts on as a "beginner"? my guess is that i will eventually need to dabble in both. i would very much appreciate some guidance in that direction.
thanks!
Javascript is a client side scripting language. Java is a general programming language. They are both object oriented but the similarity ends there really. The steeper learning curve is with server side programming, in my opinion you should focus your efforts there. If you are finding PHP a challenge it's probably better not to bother with Java at all just yet.
In terms of web development Javascript is icing on the cake, whereas Java (and PHP) are the flour and eggs. Not sure I can labour this analogy any more. Maybe I can. HTML is the oven you bake the cake in and the W3C are a cake tasting consortium.
Easy Bake Programming!
Oh man...I need to shut myself up today.
ATS16805 wrote:Hey, NetNerd85, thanks for the info! i like the info in your signature, by the way.
it's interesting that so many here have referenced Java as a good source of understanding OOP. why is that?
Cheers, good to know people find the links as useful as I.
The book that I have that explains OOP does exactly that, it explains OOP free of languages. It teaches you the theory in the chapter I read, then later how to use it all. I wouldn't bother with Java for the web today as it sucks. Stick to PHP... never thought I'd say this but Flash :glare:, I wrote it... shivers and XML is turning out to be REALLY exciting, I love it already... XML is pure power :evilgrin:
Could you explain why Java for the web sucks? Alot of people I work with would disagree
I was more so talking about applets because flash spanked those puppies into history. Java is slow. Java needs to be supported on the users machine to run it. There are just better technologies to use.
But then you can't make a comparison between PHP and a Java applet since they are disimilar technologies...
and Java is good at what?
If you say cross-platform, I'll slap you.
Java being a general purpose language is basically good at most things. It used to be slow but that isn't really the case any more.
Java has some good 'ideas' behind it but it seems to be going no where. What is the future of Java today?
cyberlew15 wrote:As an aspiring web developer at your beginners phase
Well, I should mention a few things, since this thread has pretty much strayed from OOP at times anyway.
I have been publishing HTML since probably 1998 or so. When i first started, I was hand-coding simple pages, and found quite the thrill in the whole "wow! those are my pictures up there in cyber-space for anyone to see! how cool!". I was in a rock band at the time, so i became the web master (which I later handed off the duties to a friend who made a very nice little site, which is basically its current state, complete w/ just the right amount of HTML and Flash coexistence, which i then "maintained" by adding new, updated content, including text and photo galleries, and basically ruined his clean, consistent presentation.). those early pages of mine, before my friend overhauled it, were almost strictly informational, w/ performance dates, a few pictures, and likely way too many silly animated mailbox icons and other silly animated gif's, and the like which used to be so annoyingly popular back in the day! Then i discovered FrontPage and even built a few "webs" for friends based on those FrontPage "themes", which are just utterly "wrong" in retrospect. I recall not having much control over them, as there was a lot of seemingly superfluous FrontPage code. Then I discovered Dreamweaver (probably v3.0 or something), and i thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, cause it let you do what you wanted w/ the code and the design (as opposed to FrontPage which seemed to allow minimal artistic expression for the sake of the "themes", at least for me). Then, i continued down that macromedia road, occasionally stealing some (javascript?) code for special effects here and there-- making fairly decent looking pages, which had under the hood a LOT of extra code, redundant tags, and way too much inline styling. i also was introduced to Perl probably over 5 years ago as well, but, considering my reliance upon DW, only from the plug-and-play use, and not from the writing code use, of course.
About a year ago, a flat-mate friend of mine introduced me to CSS, and the importance of the w3, XHTML, and why it's important to write valid code, adhere to web standards, etc. In the meantime I dabbled w/ Flash, having inherited Studio MX from that same friend, but i was still in the bad habit of letting DreamWeaver write my code for me. It was also around that time that I installed Colfusion MX 6.x (whatever was the version before 7), and started trying to use dynamic content, but the problem was i was too caught up in the whole DreamWeaver / Coldfusion / MS Access integration, that I lost sight of the fact that it all can (and should) be done by hand-coding. How i wasted the hours fooling w/ DW's "application/ database/ recordset" windows, trying to get it to "work right". i was aware of PHP and MySQL, but intimidated by it as it seemed to me that only computer science majors, and genuine geeks might be able to get the hang of it, and all the hand-coding that would be necessary just seemed as it would be such a handicap after having been spoiled by DW's "design view" for so long. then, i finally saw the light. i ditched DreamWeaver only too recently for EditPlus, and PHP, and CSS. I should have done this a LONG time ago. better late than never, i suppose.
so, i do have some experience w/ javascript (from a cut and paste perspective, and i think javascript, and not java, but i'm not sure), and a little bit of flash knowledge, albeit, probably the bandwidth hogging kind! so, that is how i ended up here. it's as if i've come full circle, with a lot of wayward wandering in the meantime. i'm proud to say that i've left dreamweaver behind, and i haven't touched it since i started studying CSS and PHP at the early part of this summer (except for some instances where i needed the FTP for some of the "sites" i stored there, and have since lost the login password info, so i kind of "had to" use DW for management of those files.
as for struggling w/ PHP, i don't think i've found it to be a struggle. i understand it all pretty well, but i am far from mastery. i will need to do a LOT of sample projects and experimentation before i'm ready to write even simple web apps. the CSS is coming along nicely as well, but again, i have a LOT to learn there too.
so, that is reason for my curiosity. i have been involved w/ a lot of stuff for many years, but during that time, i was very misled by dreamweaver, so i find myself having to re-learn a lot of stuff. thankfully, most of it has come to me fairly easily. since i've started, i have been very devoted to learning. it's all i do in my spare time. work the 9 to 5, come home and study, and study all weekend. you might say i'm obsessed w/ it, but oh well. it's what i want to do. i did the same thing at age 15 when i was first studying guitar, which later became my career. i am intent on learning as much as i can. i would love to work for a web development company, but would prefer to work for myself.
on that note, i'd like to say that i have been discouraged by a friend (a very knowledgeable friend, who is an ace w/ PHP, CFM, JSP, etc) who claims that there's no money in web design anymore. i find that hard to believe. and that is not to say that the only reason i'm learning is because i plan to get rich by it. that is not the case. it is simply my desire to learn. if i am able to make a living by it, or to supplement my 9 to 5 w/ it, then great. but at this point, i just desire to learn as much as i can.
Thats gr8 you don't mind if I take your last post and sell it as a biography of you do you with the title live life fast die young start a rock band and the Learn to Program. hehe only joking m8 the best places to learn about these languages are by actually programming in them. start from a reference to all of the code eg for php www.php.net or for javascript your chosen web browsers javascript APi reference. then you go to a hello world tutorial available for any language and flavour of any language around the internet deconstruct the hello world tut to learn what the components of that particular programming language do and then play around with other tut's / set your self projects targets and goals.
Sadly your friend is partly right for most people there is no money to be made from the internet which is why most of us still have 9 to 5 jobs. However a good route into web design is to start your own webpage give some menial stuff away like GUI Stuff crappy stuff that makes a webpage like homer simpsons. Then submit your website to all of the majour search engines and go on to volunteer work for charities. make your website as low maintainence as possible add shoutboxes, guestbooks, mailforms with autoresponders etc custom error pages the more work the better because it means you don't need to change it all that often. once you have a portfolio of charities websites (try well known ones how else do you think they do everything so cheap duh!) about 20-25 small projects even as small as a banner add. then you can go to businesses I did such and such work for so and so and their website gets X amount of hits per month dodgy as hell I know but it works Trust Me. let me know how you get on
thanks for the advice. i really appreciate it. sorry about the bio. i wrote that just after rolling out of bed, so it was kind of like an extension of dreamland. ha! oh well, i felt it necessary to give a bit of the b/g in hopes that you all might better understand where i am here (in the sense that i at least know some stuff, or have been exposed to it in some way or another. i'm not afraid of intimidating projects, as all i have is time. but, i think it's important that i go a certain course-- i should avoid putting the cart before the horse (although i've done it in a lot of ways already). i mean, i probably shouldn't concern myself w/, oh... XML, until i get XHTML covered, for example? seriously, i know i will reference this thread OFTEN because there is very valuable info here; a lot of guidance advice, which i believe is probably really good advice as well. you all seem very sincere and good hearted (from what one can tell in such a forum). thanks a lot to you all for your input. i have learned from this thread, that's for sure. maybe not learned code, but learned some equally important stuff for the greater scope of it all.
cheers, mates!
great but as for xml theres nothing to learn once you open a tag you always have to close it there are no exceptions. That Saved You A Lot of time did'nt it