PHP Dev's Salary

[bubblenut]

I was on £18K for the first two years of after doing an HND. That was three or four years ago though, prices may have gone up by now. If you're up for an appraisal and you're interested in focusing on web development I would try to push for a clarification of your role. Of course, if the company is small you may not have much leyway there.
A friend sent me a link a while ago (I think it was done by computer weekly) to a questionaire which helped quide you on your salary, I'll try to find it. However, everything has to be taken in the context of the company you're working for. Another good place to look is on job sites, I regularly check jobserve.com, not because I'm looking for a new job, but just to see what's being offered around the place.

[Jason_Batten]

I strongly believe that web developers are being cut short when it comes to pay. More so by companies who want to hire a web developer who they expect knows every single language under the sun for 30k/year. Not sure how it is in other countries but Australia's IT job market, okay lets just make that job market, sucks [technical term].

Anything less than $USD 45k/year is a slap in the face.

DEMAND what you are worth. This job is more difficult than sitting behind a desk eating donuts - you have to code with the other hand as well :o

[bubblenut]

Jason Batten wrote:

Anything less than $USD 45k/year is a slap in the face.

DEMAND what you are worth. This job is more difficult than sitting behind a desk eating donuts - you have to code with the other hand as well :o

You cannot say that all web developers are worth $45k, I know I wasn't when I started out. To be honest I was probably more trouble than I was worth. Companies often have very little to gain from employing a complete newb in this industry (this is why most ask for at least 2-3 years experience). In fact, there are only two advantages I can think of, they cost less and they are a clean slate, ready to be tought the bad habbits and illinformed doctrine already commonlpace in the company 😉 I would agree, don't sell yourself short, but at the same time, it's pointless to oversell yourself because you just won't get a job. Price yourself correctly.

[AbusiveWombat]

Jason Batten wrote:

I strongly believe that web developers are being cut short when it comes to pay. More so by companies who want to hire a web developer who they expect knows every single language under the sun for 30k/year. Not sure how it is in other countries but Australia's IT job market, okay lets just make that job market, sucks [technical term].

Anything less than $USD 45k/year is a slap in the face.

DEMAND what you are worth. This job is more difficult than sitting behind a desk eating donuts - you have to code with the other hand as well :o

I completely agree. I've just recently started to look into switching careers from a position in hardware verification to web application development. My verification position pays $69k / yr + benefits and is far easier and less demanding than web development. Do you guys realize how under paid you are? Verification only requires the knowledge of 1 programming language and a detailed mindset. Knowing a scripting language like PERL is considered overachieving. There's no worries about databases, hackers, or needing to keep up on all the latest skills.

I can't believe that someone with the knowledge and understanding of multiple languages (HTML, PHP, JavaScript, XML, SQL...etc), database systems, and security issues would even consider anything less than $50k / yr. It rediculous. As Jason stated...DEMAND what you're worth.

[Shrike]

If there are alot of people competing for the same jobs then the market value of the skill set goes down. Perhaps there just aren't many people available for your line of work. Oracle DBAs get paid alot and they only have to know Oracle.

[Weedpacket]

Employment agencies (particulary those that specialise in IT) have a pretty good idea of market rates for various positions and levels of experience. Try asking them what companies are willing to pay for someone with your skill set and experience - they've got an interest in giving you a fair idea of what you're worth even if you're not actively seeking a position through them. (I say them because it doesn't hurt to ask more than one).

[vaaaska]

We went through this with DavidJam once. It's all based upon the local market and what the company can afford plus get out of somebody.

If a company in NYC can find somebody to do the job for $35k they will. Of course, it's more likely that they want a skilled person and will need to pay $85k.

[foid025]

perhaps you should check on one of those online job sites. monster.com is the only one I have in mind really... I think it does the UK too, not just US. perhaps the best is to, once you find what you're worth, ask for a bit more, and then negotiate as you can... one thing though, you've been working for this firm for a year and you dont have a salary yet??

[Jason_Batten]

You cannot say that all web developers are worth $45k, I know I wasn't when I started out.

Obviously not every kid on the block. What I was saying though is that the advertised positions ask for alot and the pay doesn't match up. If you know several languages and have the experience you should be paid for it.

[Weedpacket]

You can demand as much as you like, but the market won't pay more than it's prepared to.

Often, the company lists everything they'll be wanting the "tech guy" to do (about three or four specialised roles conflated because it's all "IT"), and then pull a number out of nowhere based on how much money they have left after paying everyone else. When faced with the impedance mismatch, they'll likely go "...ah, maybe not," and pull the vacancy.

[Jason_Batten]

Half of you don't know how much you're worth and people will exploit your value if you let them.

Ask yourself, how much am I worth, then ask why 🙂 and no "because I'm smart" or "because mummy says so" are not valid answers. Be honest to yourself.

If asked "How much are you expecting to earn", what are you going to say? Are you going to say what they wrote on the ad? Or are you even going to say why you’re expecting that much?

You can demand as much as you like, but the market won't pay more than it's prepared to.

*Of course, negative people will try to come up with an excuse about some sort of "limit" or mental "wall" they see blocking the way. Anyone who says "that wont work" is a failure. The "I can’t do it, you can’t either" attitude is a classic negative minded example. Watch out!

Most people fail. Not many get back up and try again.

If you got the deeper meaning in this post, good and no it is not easy building value - knowing why and presenting your value. I'm still building my value and that’s okay because I know why I'm doing it. Why are you doing what you do? Are you building value?

*There is a point to what weedpacket says, sometimes things just dont work, sometimes you won't get what you want but does that mean you should stop trying?

[Shrike]

I don't want to sound harsh but how long have you been in a full time job Jason? I'm 6 years out of university now and have a fair idea of the web developer market in the UK - it is very competetive and overstaffed, particularly outside of London. Employers can pick and choose and will never pay the top end of their advertised scale because they don't have to - someone will always work for less even if they think they are worth more.

[piersk]

Shrike, when you say web development, do you mean the actual programming, or the general web market? Because I get loads of adverts for jobs in programming (admittedly I'm not at a stage where I can actually apply for any of them at the moment). Not necessarily in PHP, but ASP seems to be quite sought after.

However, I see the actual web design as a dead market to me. You either need to be shit-hot at design (like this) or be the 15 year old son of the CEO. And I'm neither.

[Shrike]

I mean actual programming. There do seem to be more ASP vacancies floating around but I don't think the pay scales are all that different for the same role. When applying for PHP jobs I got about 1 response for every 10 applications - that just being an agent calling me up, nowhere near interview stage.

Your right in that the web design market has slowed down alot. I'd credit that to the internet bubble bursting. When I started my first job the company employed 6 designers, 8 HTML authors and 2 programmers in a company of about 20 people. When I left the company employed 60 people of whom 2 were HTML authors, 3 designers and 15 programmers - the focus had shifted over the years from brand websites to web applications. Which is good for us programmers right? 🙂

[navster]

Thanks for your responses guys - been good looking through them all.

I'm earning £14k ~ $25k. I didn't apply for the job as such it was purly by cold calling different companies in the local area. Once I "sold" myself I was given a contract part-time (as there was hardly any web work about), this has since moved to full-time.

I'm way in the country & I was dead lucky to find this as my first job... plus its in walking distance.

The money isnt fantastic.. but I'm mainly doing it for the experience in the hope that it will help me get onto the career ladder. We all gotta start from somewhere right?

I will explain the situation & how I feel, that I'm not just developing, I also do the other IT jobs (which I should add aren’t part of my contract) in the review. In comparison I feel I should be on at least £18k if not more.

If I dont get what I want then I think its for the best to gain more experience elsewhere. There's only so much you can learn in a small marketing agency anyway!

[Jason_Batten]

I don't want to sound harsh but how long have you been in a full time job Jason?

I don't work. I don't have a job. I don't want one either. I never even finished high-school. I do business 😃

Getting a job is just selling yourself. Again, what do you have of value to others?

Like I said, don't waste YOUR time.

Good luck navster, grow and experience as much as possible.

[Weedpacket]

Jason Batten wrote:

Ask yourself, how much am I worth, then ask why and no "because I'm smart" or "because mummy says so" are not valid answers. Be honest to yourself.

If asked "How much are you expecting to earn", what are you going to say? Are you going to say what they wrote on the ad? Or are you even going to say why you’re expecting that much?

Okay, so why do you think you're worth whatever it is you think you're worth? And if it's different from what everyone else (i.e., "the market") thinks, why do you reckon you're right and they're wrong?

[Jason_Batten]

Okay, thank you for posting weedpacket - I seemed to have caused confusion [to myself as well]. I found your question difficult to answer because...

Having value, presenting value*, the price and how much that value is worth are all different.

An example: My mother buys cat food, the value is the cat food because mum needs it for the cat. The value / cat food is presented as a 'value pack' of six single serves for the cat as compared to one single can. The six pack is priced at $2.50 a single can is $0.95. The six pack of cat food [the value] appears that you are getting 6 for the price of less than 3. On closer inspection the amount of cat food in two cans is more than the 6 pack of singles. Therefore the value is not worth the price. It just appears to be.

Another example is a vacuum cleaner [okay I use to work for Kirby - you don't know me! don't hate snaps fingers :o] The value is the cleaner, the presentation is how well it works. Keeping your carpet clean and healthy so you don't have to buy new carpet or pay professionals to clean it. The do-it yourself machine is presented in a way to show you it will save you money. Amazingly the amount of money you would spend on new carpet and professionals is more than the price of the cleaner.

You can charge anything as long as you successfully prove that you’re worth it. I'm worth what I decide at the time and what I think I can earn with my presentation.

Took me 2 hours to write you this answer - got it on the third attempt. Check's in the mail. There is a perfectly good reason why I'm not touching the web development topic here, no point giving you my sales now is there :rolleyes: So I can't answer your question "why do you think you're worth whatever it is you think you're worth?" - Sorry but hopefully I have explained myself better?

Let me note that it is difficult to get more than what people are expecting to pay. Most people are willing to pay for value, if they think they'll get it. It is only up to you to be convincing - it's called a silver tongue. You are a product and/or service so you can sell it just as well as anything else.

As for my mum, I confronted her with the issue, she claims it is more convenient. I expect to see the change back to cans next week 😃

*aka building value.

[Weedpacket]

Jason Batten wrote:

no point giving you my sales now is there :rolleyes:

So your customer base is so thin that this is a risk :rolleyes:?

[Jason_Batten]

Sigh No, I was going to edit my post to add that I'll post more about it later on my new website / blog for those that are interested. Clearly you aren't either way so I won't waste my time [edit] on you :p