PHP: Programming or Scripting ?

[Sxooter]

Actually, PHP has several real frameworks available for it. One of the more interesting ones is greenorange which is a framework and an IDE via web interface all rolled into one.

I would actually say that php can be used to build its own framework, but PHP in and of itself is kinda a half-framework, considering all the external packages it can incorporate, like libdb, url wrappers, ldap interface, PDO db interface etc...

But a framework generally includes larger things like form builders and such.

[Doug_G]

I just visited the greenorange site. Oops, I can't even look at the documentation without registering first, and I don't intend to register on a site when I don't have a clue what it's about.

[Sxooter]

That's only the overview doc, and I'm not sure why they implemented that. It wasn't there before. the technical docs which tell you how to actually use it, are free and open.

I'm willing to be this had something to do about people spamming comments or something.

Note that it is licensed GPL...

[laserlight]

I always figured, if your vars have $ in front of them you're like using a scripting language.

I propose that PHP6 use variables that start with a ! so as to make it a Real Programming Language.

if ($isset(!_GET['foo'])) {
	echo "empty";
} else {
	echo (!_GET['foo'] == 0) ! "nothing" : "something";
}

[khendar]

Doug G wrote:

PHP relies more on functions built in the php language, ASP relies more on extensible components from outside sources.

Doesn't PHP use the functions from the Zend platform ?

[Weedpacket]

Doug G wrote:

And PHP is a framework used by the php scripting language.

I thought we were talking about the PHP language, and whether it's a scripting language or a programming language. Who's idea was it to make the runtime environment an issue?

Is that the difference? That a scripting language is interpreted at runtime (and so potentially has the ability to rewrite itself at runtime), and a programming language is compiled to native machine code first? Them's very deep and sticky waters to be getting into - and certainly aren't going to be covered by a single one-or-the-other distinction.

Programming is programming. Trying to make distinctions like that is not worth the bandwidth, imo.

[dalecosp]

laserlight wrote:

I propose that PHP6 use variables that start with a ! so as to make it a Real Programming Language.

if ($isset(!_GET['foo'])) {
	echo "empty";
} else {
	echo (!_GET['foo'] == 0) ! "nothing" : "something";
}

Yowsa! 🆒

And then, for PHP7, I propose we stop wasting money on wine, women, and song (and anything other than food, clothing, and shelter) and send the extra to Weedpacket as a commission to write an INTERCAL Compatibility Layer/Module...

[Jason_Batten]

I propose we stop wasting money on wine, women, and song

You pay for women eh? well @ 14.95 / month it is a bargain!

[dalecosp]

Jason Batten wrote:

You pay for women eh?

Well, buddy, I married one, and believe me, when you marry one, you pay ... (and, if you've good sense, you don't "pay" anyone else .... 😉 )

A few folks argue it might be cheaper, in the long run, and in terms not only financial, but personal, to just work hard and save your cash for an, um, "pro" whenever, as our friends across the pond might say, you get a "fancy" to play "slap and tickle". Can't say as I agree, necessarily; but I'll not come knocking on your door at midnight to see who you're with, either. Suffice it to say that generally, there have been laws about that sort of thing, and most societies would do well to study the issue in depth before they encourage/legalize/normalize it. But now we're way OT, even for the EL ....

[Doug_G]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug G
And PHP is a framework used by the php scripting language.

[/quote]

Weedpacket wrote:

I thought we were talking about the PHP language, and whether it's a scripting language or a programming language. Who's idea was it to make the runtime environment an issue?

Is that the difference? That a scripting language is interpreted at runtime (and so potentially has the ability to rewrite itself at runtime), and a programming language is compiled to native machine code first? Them's very deep and sticky waters to be getting into - and certainly aren't going to be covered by a single one-or-the-other distinction.

Programming is programming. Trying to make distinctions like that is not worth the bandwidth, imo.

When you click reply quotes in the post don't make it to the reply page. And my entire post which you partially quoted was

Quote:
Just to be clear. ASP is not a language, it is a framework used by scripting languages (vbscript, jscript, python) to build web applications. ASP.NET is also a framework not a language, supporting the C#, and VB.NET languages.

And PHP is a framework used by the php scripting language.

Conceptually asp and php are pretty much the same. PHP relies more on functions built in the php language, ASP relies more on extensible components from outside sources.

I was only replying that php and asp are extremely similar environments when used by a web server.

Programming is programming. Trying to make distinctions like that is not worth the bandwidth, imo.

Ditto. I'm even a member of the group that thinks html is programming too 🙂

[Doug_G]

Sxooter wrote:

That's only the overview doc, and I'm not sure why they implemented that. It wasn't there before. the technical docs which tell you how to actually use it, are free and open.

I'm willing to be this had something to do about people spamming comments or something.

Note that it is licensed GPL...

Thanks, it was late and I did bookmark the site for a further look-see, the bits I saw looked interesting.

[khendar]

Doug G wrote:

Ditto. I'm even a member of the group that thinks html is programming too 🙂

Do we really want all of those kiddies out there making awful webpages with neon tiled background and yellow text going around calling themselves programmers ? Giving the rest of us a bad name ? 😛

May as well call using formulas in Excel programming too while we are at it.

[Weedpacket]

Doug G wrote:

I was only replying that php and asp are extremely similar environments when used by a web server.

And I was saying that we were talking about the PHP language, and you were replying to a post that stated that ASP is not a language.

Ditto. I'm even a member of the group that thinks html is programming too

Well, I guess that explains it, then.:evilgrin:

[Doug_G]

And I was saying that we were talking about the PHP language, and you were replying to a post that stated that ASP is not a language.

No, you were quoting me out of context on purpose, to be disagreeable, and I'd like to commend you on succeeding.

[Weedpacket]

Oh, good. For a moment there I thought I was posting for an entirely different reason. I thought I was pointing out that we were talking about the language, not the "framework". Glad you cleared that up. (How could I quote you out of context? I'm not going to re-post the entire thread just to make it clear what it was I was replying to.)

Since we were talking about the language, and not the framework, and since we established that ASP is not a language, but a framework that supports a few different languages, what point is there in bringing up that the PHP runtime environment supports the PHP language in the same way that ASP supports VBScript? It's a bit of a non sequiter. Maybe I just missed the whole point of your post.

[tomdur]

Hi, I have questions and really want to know how to build
a specific
directory for web user. I met some of them on the net;

Like: http://www.directoryofmusic.net
http://www.open-sites.net or http://www.click2info.net

thank you.

[Sxooter]

You should really start a new thread, eh? Give it a subject to go with what you're asking about, and put it in the right forum and you should get an answer right away. Note that this is pretty much a web server configuration issue, so I'd think Echo lounge is defitely not the best place to find help. This forum is kind of like the corner pub.

Look in General Help or Install, or maybe either the Linux or Windows forums, depending on your OS.

Note that with the first link you provided, it's just a matter of creating the directories in the web server's document root and you're done.

[Weedpacket]

If you want, here's one perspective that may help.

"Scripts" in this context usually refer to programs (it's a subset) that are supposed to start, do their thing and stop all within a short space of time, and preferably with minimal user interaction; as distinguished from "programs" which are started and are expected to run pretty much indefinitely until they are dismissed. Note that the distinction is how the programs are intended for use, not what language they are written in.

"Scripting languages" would be a subset of "programming languages": those that were originally designed to aid the writing of scripts. That "originally designed" is crucial: you can write dynamic web pages with C (and once upon a time this was the norm) in exactly the same circumstances and for exactly the same tasks for which PHP is used now, but C isn't regarded as a "scripting language" despite the fact that that is exactly what it is being used for here.

Now, you can ask whether PHP is up to the task of being used to implement large-scale applications with indefinitely long running times and frequent user interactivity. Of course, you'd have to decide at which point on the scale "lots of interacting scripts" becomes "application" or vice versa. Then you can ask if PHP is a mere scripting language. But it still wouldn't say anything about the programmer (unless they insisted on using a language unsuited for the situation).

But if the question is "PHP: scripting language or programming language?" the answer would have to be "both" - same as if the question was "zebra: equine or mammal?"