Freelancing rant

piersk

I have quite a few friends who are into web design and get a lot of freelancing work because they have nice websites. I am a crap designer so my only website is my blog, but I'd like to use my site to get more work. The issue I have is that since I am bad at designing, one look at a website and any prospective clients would run a mile.

So what do I do? Pay someone to design something for me? Come up with something and hope that whoever looks at my site will see past it and actually look at the content?

Answers on a postcard...

Shrike

You might be right in saying a badly designed site will have a negative impact but a well designed site will not win you any work if the content isn't up to much. If I had to make a personal website (thankfully I haven't 😉 ) I'd start with the content and go from there. The content should drive the design and function of the site, in my opinion.

Jason_Batten

You answered your own question mate.

Pay someone else. It's what I am going to do.

vaaaska

Dood...why didn't you ask me? You know where to find me...we could whip something up for you.

And yeah, the content should drive the site...

Jason_Batten

vaaaska wrote:
Dood...why didn't you ask me? You know where to find me...we could whip something up for you.

And yeah, the content should drive the site...

I don't know why!, I'll send you the spec. sheet as soon as possible 😃... oh :bemused: you weren't talking to me 🙁 ... that's okay, I mean I'm use to being left out walks away slowly, hanging his head

vaaaska

Jason, where I come from people help each other out. I'm very happy to help people out with personal or non-profit projects if I have the time. But, only for the group of folks who have been around here for years and have made great contributions to this 'community'.

I mentioned this to Piers in an email...a great website can bring you some attention but having a great network around you will often help you find help or projects. PHPBuilder too is a network like this to some extent I believe... Building a custom network should always be the goal of any freelancer and/or business.

I once knew this guy who was one of the worst designers I'd ever seen - he never studied and he didn't know anything of history or research. He was actually a magician. He had this amazing network of magician colleagues though that kept him up to his eyeballs with projects (and good projects too). I always enjoyed talking to him because he taught me something new every time.

Jason_Batten

Jason, where I come from people help each other out.

The reason I have not made more of an active effort to help people on this forum is because I believe I do not have the level of skill to which I would be the most help. There are plenty of other people around to help with higher levels of skill.

If you go to webdeveloper.com I post in the business section occasionally. If you go to my gaming site, there is a very detailed tutorial set about a game editor. I wrote those because I have the knowledge and they help people.

I enjoy helping others very much. Everyone I know knows they can come to me for help.

I know you don't like me. Please stop trying to discredit me and keep the personal stuff off the forum, private message me. Last warning.

Shrike

Jason Batten wrote:
Last warning.

Or what? You'll stop posting?

khendar

Children...if you dont stop right now I'm going to turn this car around.

In my opinion a good design should be simple and stylish. All I tend to do is take one of the several CSS based templates that I've made/collected/bought and customise it for the style of site. Doesn't have to be radically unique - there's thousands of very similar sites around which do very well.

Elizabeth

Piers, the only bad thing about getting someone else to design your site might be that people may expect those kind of design skills when hiring you... unless you make it perfectly clear that coding's your game, not design. That's the only thing that comes to mind for me, anyway. 🙂

vaaaska

Elizabeth wrote:
Piers, the only bad thing about getting someone else to design your site might be that people may expect those kind of design skills when hiring you... unless you make it perfectly clear that coding's your game, not design. That's the only thing that comes to mind for me, anyway. 🙂

Perhaps, but are designers who don't know how to program and want it allowed to hire developers to do it for them? Yep...

A developer will create the things that a client needs to make happen on a site. A designer is basically going to do the same thing (or a good one I mean). The two are essentially trying to achieve the same thing - I think working together raises the bar.

Perhaps I'm just jaded because I can do both...if I want, the two disciplines nearly become one in the same in my mind (which is sort of what we might try for this).

Elizabeth

vaaaska wrote:
Perhaps, but are designers who don't know how to program and want it allowed to hire developers to do it for them? Yep...

Agreed, and if you're a coder that's going to subcontract design services to an associate and offer the full package to the client, then that's fine- and your site can reflect that you "do it all" even if you (personally) really don't. So if Piers is going that route then he won't have a problem not making the distinction. Does that make sense?

pohopo

If your skill is more on server side coding versus designing you should try to team up with someone that has good design skills, but is weak at programming. I consider my design skills alright, however my gf has badass design skills. Without trying/promoting she gets a constant stream of freelancing jobs to build websites. When she needs some backend development work done she will ask me. Together we provide a full service web dev team.

TerryGirl007

I'm not a coder or a designer, but rather I contract out for these skills, and I can honestly tell you (in my humble opinion) that when I'm searching for a designer, I review their resume first, their portfolio second, and their personal site last.

As a client I would rather your upfront that you are NOT strong on the design side, but are stellar on the coding side. If I contract for design skills I expect 'truth in advertising', and for the designer to have the ability to deliver a design that has the same flare (and artistic skill level) as their portfolio and/or personal site.

If the developer is not strong on design it becomes apparent very quickly during the mock-up phase of the project, and by that time a client is upset that the designer is not what they've claimed to be... not to mention the time and money wasted as a result of the deception.

However, when a developer is honest, and gives a client ALTERNATIVES to offset his/her not so stellar design skills it can be more rewarding, and cheaper, than going with a top notch designer in some instances (depending on the project).

For example, I worked with a developer with limited design skills, but rather than him trying to snowball me, he sent me several links to various pre-designed templates he felt best captured the mood the project. As a client I felt very empowered by his course of action because it allowed me to have more input and MORE CHOICES initially on the final outcome of the design. And as a result the design phase of the project was cheaper because he only needed to make small changes to the template which made it look very original as a high-end design. Plus this left him free to concentrate on the coding part of the project, which he exceled at beyond expectations.

This example is from several years ago, and unfortunately I've lost touch with that developer, but I just wanted to give you an example of how you don't have to claim someone elses design as your own, but rather purchase a template, make it your own and the credit is all yours that no one can take away or feel deceived by.

After all in the end, it doesn't matter where the inspiration for a great design comes from, but rather that you can execute to the satifaction of your client's needs. Hope this help, well it's my 2 cents worth anyway. 🙂

JPnyc

People who do both well are EXTREMELY rare. In fact, I don't think I know 1. Usually a designer's coding is a nightmare, and a good coder's designs tend to look rather bleak and amateurish.

Weedpacket

Aye, indeed. Like when I went to an interview once, they said they were looking for someone who, as well as coding skills, was "a Michaelangelo" when it came to design.

I told 'em: "Well, I can paint you a house, but I'm not the guy you want to paint the Cistine Chapel".

pohopo

JPnyc wrote:
People who do both well are EXTREMELY rare. In fact, I don't think I know 1. Usually a designer's coding is a nightmare, and a good coder's designs tend to look rather bleak and amateurish.

I agree, I have been in this business for a while and I have yet to meet someone who I consider strong in both design and coding.

Shrike

Weedpacket wrote:
Aye, indeed. Like when I went to an interview once, they said they were looking for someone who, as well as coding skills, was "a Michaelangelo" when it came to design.

I told 'em: "Well, I can paint you a house, but I'm not the guy you want to paint the Cistine Chapel".

Didn't Michaelangelo paint The Last Supper on a house? :p

laserlight

Didn't Michaelangelo paint The Last Supper on a house?

I think it was da Vinci who painted that. Anyway, Jesus ate his last supper in a house, and he was a freelance carpenter.

Shrike

Oh crap, not long since I read the Da Vinci Code either 😉