Treasury Dept. announces new $20 bill....

dalecosp

bpat1434 wrote:
or on a ethanol fuel or something like that.

IIRC, thirty years ago I was reading about someone in Mexico running a bus on methane from chicken "litter".

Lord knows people that raise 'em would like it if we all did that ... neighbor to the North spread "turkey litter" on his fields y-day. We went to town to eat 😉

goldbug

piersk wrote:
Don't hybrid cars run on very little fuel?

The problem with hybrid cars is cost, as they exist currently. We did the math on hybrid versus "normal" cars a while ago and came to a shocking conclusion: cost-to-operate for the hybrid model was higher than the cost of the equivalent gasoline-only models. Lots of car salesman try to trumpet the fuel-savings aspect of hybrids, and it really does add up. The problem: the fuel savings does not add up as quickly as the cost of replacement batteries (every 10 yers or so)--they are quite expensive. Add that onto the additional cost of the hybrid model over the fuel-only model, and it's a losing venture.

Therefore, imho, the reason to by a hybrid is not to save money, but rather to reduce emissions.

Saving money driving using current technology = diesel.

The best way to reduce both, obviously, is to combine trips when possible, walk when possible, or ride bikes or take public transportation.

dalecosp

goldbug wrote:
Therefore, imho, the reason to by a hybrid is not to save money, but rather to reduce emissions.

And I wonder if that is what most people think. Of the individuals in surround communities that I know run hybrids, it's mostly because they can afford to --- e.g., a status symbol. They may think it's about environmental responsibility, but it doesn't seem so from appearances.

Incidentally, one fellow (a McDonald's 4-franchise owner) has 3 or more of these things. Either big on vanity or he thinks he needs a redundant supply (reliability issues, anyone?)

bpat1434

Saving money driving using current technology = diesel.

Dont' know where you live, but around me diesel too is next to the highest price... 🙁

Most cost effective travel is with what G_D gave you 🙂

pohopo

goldbug wrote:
The problem with hybrid cars is cost, as they exist currently. We did the math on hybrid versus "normal" cars a while ago and came to a shocking conclusion: cost-to-operate for the hybrid model was higher than the cost of the equivalent gasoline-only models. Lots of car salesman try to trumpet the fuel-savings aspect of hybrids, and it really does add up. The problem: the fuel savings does not add up as quickly as the cost of replacement batteries (every 10 yers or so)--they are quite expensive. Add that onto the additional cost of the hybrid model over the fuel-only model, and it's a losing venture.

Therefore, imho, the reason to by a hybrid is not to save money, but rather to reduce emissions.

Saving money driving using current technology = diesel.

The best way to reduce both, obviously, is to combine trips when possible, walk when possible, or ride bikes or take public transportation.

When you did the math what car were you comparing it with and what gas price were you using? I am paying $3.20/gallon right now and a hybrid can get as much as 3x the gas mileage of convential cars. Even with the battery replacement it will be cheaper then many cars out there now. Another thing to consider is economies of scale, as more hybrid cars are produced the price will go down. We will soon see hybrids for 15k or so. I would have bought a hybrid myself, but at the time there was a 3-6 month wait and I needed a car now.

As bad as prices are, they are bringing about a cultural change on cars and alternative fuels that I feel is long overdue. Our dependency on foreign oil is a great concern and for the tree huggers out there it also kills our earth. And the oil companies do not have much to fear because they own almost all the alternative fuel companies also.

Elizabeth

Anybody see the Dirty Jobs episode on bio-diesel fuel? The dude would get the leftover grease from a local Mexican restaurant, process it in his garage and run his car on it.

pohopo

A brother of someone I know gets the used oil from a local McDonalds and runs his car off that using some converter kit he bought. I guess he first needs to heat the engine up and when it is running he switches it.

vaaaska

Folks, I have it under good authority to reveal that Dalecosp works for the NSA, FBI, CIA, Interpol, KGB and Israeli intelligence all at the same time. You know, I'm just sayin' yo...

In Belgium a gallon of gas costs something like 12,000 euros. I'd more accurately say $12,034.12 but nobody has of yet figured out how to explain pennies in euros so...yeah...voila...

pohopo

12 bucks a gallon?! (keels over)

bubblenut

Do you guys have LPG (Liquid Petrolium Gas) cars in the US? I'm not sure if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick but when you talk about hybrid cars are you talking about exclusively petrol-electric ones?
LPG seems to be the big alternative fuel over here at the moment but it seems like ethonol fuels are on the up.

Weedpacket

Weedpacket wrote:
Hm... here, 96 octane is about 3.92 USD/gal now. That's a 25% rise in a little over two years.

Once I use the same currency exchange rate now that I did then (the NZD took quite a dip against the USD over the past montH), the figure I get is closer to 4.50 USD/gal (that blasted "231 cubic inches" - what feature of the world is that constant supposed to represent?)

piersk wrote:
I don't drive anyway

You:

walk
cycle
swim
flap your arms really fast
hope the public transport system doesn't pass increased operating charges on to their customers...

goldbug wrote:
the fuel savings does not add up as quickly as the cost of replacement batteries (every 10 yers or so)

As well as battery lifespan, you also need to consider battery manufacture and disposal as well (plus, the lifespan of the vehicle itself) - not to mention the fact the battery charger has to get its power from somewhere.... In most hybrids, that's by burning fuel (what saving there is comes from being able to amortize fuel consumption on a more efficient schedule than that demanded by immediate power requirements - so the more considered your driving is to begin with, the less benefit you'd get).

bpat1434 wrote:
Dont' know where you live, but around me diesel too is next to the highest price...

Ah, that's diesel fuel - diesel engines aren't anywhere near so discriminating about what they drink.

pohopo wrote:
....runs his car off [used oil] using some converter kit he bought.

If the car had a diesel engine then all he really needed to do to use used cooking oil is strain it and add a touch of kerosene.

dalecosp wrote:
IIRC, thirty years ago I was reading about someone in Mexico running a bus on methane from chicken "litter".

And for those of you who watch BBC's Top Gear programme, you'd remember a couple of years ago a demo (I won't use the word "experiment") of methane-powered cars. Conclusion: people poo was a better source of methane than cow poo. (And, as it happens, a third of the power requirements of Auckland's main wastewater treatment plant is currently met by its own methane digesters....)

Jason_Batten

Wait... you're a New Zealander? That would make SO MUCH sense.

bubblenut

http://pesn.com/2006/05/02/9500266_Gun_Engine/
Now that's what we all need.

bpat1434

The conversion does quadruple the efficiency over that of traditional engines, and in combination with elimination of transmission, allows construction of a vehicle capable of exceeding 220 mpg in mileage.

Wow... my last car only got 200 per tank!!! And that was like a 10 gallon tank!!

Politicians decide if that is worth to try, but the new government in Canada, very much under the sway of the Bush administration, is leading that country away from supporting the Kyoto Accord.

Why oh why do we have to stick our damn fingers in everyone elses business? Really?

I had some but could not accept the conditions. As for today I am trying to convince a certain European engine manufacturer to produce a large marine version of the gun-engine as vessel's thrust would be 200,000 Hp power at 100 RPM. I would meet in Germany with CEO of German Industry, but am not very optimistic.

I'm gonna say BMW or VW... but I don't know many german auto makers... and good man... if one company gets rights to it, they could just toss it in the dust pan and forget about it for 25 years....

A vehicle that uses the gun-engine would be little less heavy, (elimination of transmission and lighter gun-engine) yet its production costs would be only a fraction of that of current engine, since many manufacturing processes could be eliminated and the gun-engine does not require difficult processes or not-yet-developed materials. In addition, only these parts exposed to explosions of fuel would need to be made out of metal. The rest could be made of mould-injected plastics, and this manufacturing process is less expensive than metal processing.

Sounds like a Ferrari or Porsche to me 😉

Good article.... now... how can I raise 200,000 for him to build me a car?

Just thinking of this... thing about it: 15 gallon tank could very well get you across the US on ONE TANK OF GAS!!! That's INSANE!!!!

Weedpacket

Let's just say I'll accept efficiency claims of 220MPG for a car when there is a car that manages 220MPG....

[The Gun-Engine] is different since it explodes fuel; traditional engines cannot withstand the explosions.

Well, that's my understanding of how internal combustion engines work thrown right out the window.

Why all the fiddly moving parts? Why have a pre-piston before the piston? Why a twelve-stroke engine? (And what about rotaries?) Why not scrap all the moving parts and build a pulse jet motor?😉

bpat1434

lol... Apparently this guy isn't the only one to think of it. Apparently Angel Labs came up with the MYT Engine.

Angel Labs :: The MYT (tm) Engine

Weed, look on their forums, you'd have plenty of fun 😉

dalecosp

Weedpacket wrote:
Let's just say I'll accept efficiency claims of 220MPG for a car when there is a car that manages 220MPG....

Well, now; that has been done.

Of course, the plant was wrapped in fiberglass blanket insulation. The transmission was chain drive. The top speed was about 12 mph. I don't remember much else, but it wasn't exactly functional as we'd expect it.

So, when there is a car that meets customer expectations that gets 220 MPG? Hmm, come to think of it, the second part of that requirement might be easier than the first 😃

pohopo

I was thinking of making me a scramjet powered car. Very efficient and no problems with speed. =)

mrbaseball34

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/04/16BRAZILETH.html

Braizl has dumped imported oil and reaping the benefits.

Why can't we do the same?