can i make a suggestion?

stevesweetland

im posting this because iv observed something happen which happened to me, and i felt a bit wronged by it. iv spoken to the feller who did it and everything is gravy so i wont drag up history.

im hoping that this might be useful, as opposed to combatant, theres no reason why we cant discuss this as adults

anyway....

See this post...

http://phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10331836

this feller hasnt said that he searched first.

he is first, somewhat abruptly, told to search.

i would assume this is probably because the moderators are fed up with answering the same old questions, and he gets upset, because he already has searched. he then reports the post because he feels its a bit out of order... he doesnt realise that its a moderator whos done it.

if you know the answer, its going to take only little time to first politely remind the user to search and then copy in a url from a helpful post, right?

its important to be nice, because it makes your users nice. be abrupt and it will make your users abrupt.

oh, and please dont attack me - take the time to read what im saying, im being perfectly polite. i run a busy forum , i know what its like... im trying to help.

stevesweetland

i could just be chattin fraff.... it happens.

Weedpacket

My original reply seems like a perfectly reasonable answer to me. I knew where the information could be found (having found it in exactly the same way in the past) and pointed the poster in that direction. I'd have found such a reply perfectly adequate had I received it.

So what's wrong with it? That it was short? That it didn't go into detail about why I was under too much time constraint to go into detail (as anyone would care about my problems) or to do the search myself, check through the threads, and post a selection (as bpat1434 subsequently did)?

I admit one failing on my part in that I didn't read the post too closely at the time - really I just skimmed it for keywords (and noted that "censor" wasn't present) - but re-reading it I don't see anything to indicate that the poster had already searched or what for; just a couple of blocks of code (neither of which appeared at the time to be helpful) and a "how do I do this?" question. Given that, I could have just written "go search the forums, dick", but I had no reason to be impolite and no reason to assume that the poster's name was Dick.

Besides, if I make the post longer it usually backfires.

stevesweetland

you know what - another day, a fresh mind... and in absolute honesty i dont know what i was on about.

feel free to shoot me down in flames, i deserve nowt less...

apologies guys

bpat1434

Don't feel bad. Had the post not been reported, I don't think he would have been given a "better" response. However, that's not to say that Weedpacket, Brad, Liz, Buzz, myself, or any other moderator don't need to be checked every once in a while.

I can see where the guys frustration came from; however, that doesn't necessarily give him the right to just go off like he did. Unfortunately, in my eyes, it falls upon the failure of the original poster to point out that he has already searched and come up with nothing. And how do we know exactly what he searched for? Did he search for "search for word censor" or "censor" what?

To that end... perhaps a KB could be in order with questions and answers to some of the most FAQs here. This way, we can point them to the KB (or a well stickied and prominent topic) to get an answer. I realize we have this already, but it's not really kept up and all.

But it's just opinion . . .

Piranha

I have no idea why anyone would consider Weedpacket's post to be offencive. It is the kind of reply I would like to get when I ask questions, not that someone should solve my problems.

But I think it is perfectly ok to report moderators posts as well, I don't think they should be treated in one way and others in another way. To choose that post to report, and with that answer, is another thing...

Btw, do you guys think that I should report lesham's posts, they are rude and only serve to flame. :p

Weedpacket

zzz makes a good point in that thread. Clean it out? If yes, though, this thread would go too.

I'll leave the decision to the other mods. Me, I'll have to stay out it.

NogDog

Just to add my (unasked for) two cents' worth....

Having participated in and moderated a number of forums for many years now, I've found simply telling someone to do a search or to RTFM is generally non-productive. Most forum members fall into two general categories: those who do search and RTFM first to try to solve their problems, and those who don't. Those who are in the latter class probably aren't going to change their ways just because you tell them to, and those in the former class are probably so desperate by the time they post in a forum that they aren't thinking about recording the entire history of their attempt to resolve the current problem.

My suggestion: if you don't feel inclined to answer a post because you think the poster should have searched or RTFM'd, just ignore it and move on to the next one of interest. If you're aware that there has been a previously posted solution, then suggest that they do a forum search, and supply them with what you think would be the operative search keywords that should find that solution, for example, "Try a search of this forum on the word 'pagination', and I think you'll find a number of posts that should help." Or if you'd like to respond with "Read the F******* Manual!", instead try "I'd suggest you start by reading the www.php.net/mysql_fetch_assoc manual page and see if that answers your question."

Weedpacket

NogDog wrote:
"Try a search of this forum on the word 'pagination', and I think you'll find a number of posts that should help."

That's what I did originally, and which started this whole sorry affair.

vaaaska

I've found simply telling someone to do a search or to RTFM is generally non-productive

I completely disagree. Because these are two different things.

If somebody ask, 'what does extract() do?'. You should tell them to read the manual...it's a way or learning.

If a person asks, 'how do I paginate?' Searching the forum and it's 7 years (?) of content is a great place to start.

I have to say that I was the slowest learner around this place...for years I bugged the crap out of the regulars with the most obtuse things. And yes, finally...it did sink in that searching and reading the manual are even more useful than the forum itself much of the time.

One thing I feel the forum lacks is an auto way to create links to entries in the manual...like if you type 'extract()' it will know to make the autolink to that entry. Then, when you say read the manual for extract() you will get the real thing. The answer isn't as blunt.

I was offended by these kinds of responses for years...until I wised up and realized just how useful and simple this kind of advice really is.

I owe Weedie, in particular, a few dozen beers for the huge amount of advice he has tossed my way over the years...both directly and also from reading his responses in threads.

madwormer2

One thing I feel the forum lacks is an auto way to create links to entries in the manual

You can use [ man ] explode [ / man ] (without spaces.) That does the same thing...

[man]extract[/man]

If the answer's in the manual, it's the EASIEST place for the person to look. It's perfectly okay just to give them a point in that direction. Better than not saying anything at all.

NogDog

Weedpacket wrote:
That's what I did originally, and which started this whole sorry affair.

Then as far as I'm concerned there should have been no problem. 🙂

stevesweetland

Weedpacket wrote:
That's what I did originally, and which started this whole sorry affair.

see, thats why i took back what i was saying. at the time i took it as a 'rtfm n00b' type comment, which in retrospect was not at all what it was.

guess i was still a bit annoyed about getting that "why dont you do a search you fool" type of response to a question i had asked a couple weeks back, for me to focus that frustration on Weedpacket was definately wrong, i sincerely apologise.

i agree with NogDog's comments completely - if you cant be bothered to be constructive because the guy asking looks like hes trying to leech as opposed to learn - then dont post, its actually easier to say nothing.

im not on here awfully regularly, but as much as i come here, iv come here for years - its been a brilliant help, and iv always given my help where possible. that minor incident just wound me up, because the guy in a single sentence presumed to know everything about me.

stolzyboy

this has been a problem from as far back as i can recall...

people just don't get it sometimes when "elder" members point you in the right direction, i typically don't care if someone gets upset at me, but i feel i'll be doing them an injustice by just spoon feeding them the answer versus letting them go through the problem and figuring it out themselves (while pointing them in the right direction of course)...

you can equate it to being similar to cheating on a test/homework/etc... you typically don't learn anything cuz you are in a sense, cut and pasting like in a script...

help others help themselves is what i say, otherwise, they will just troll along, grabbing code here/there/everywhere and they will not learn anything and will be destined to fail in the end since they will really have no knowledge on what they were doing in the first place

stolzyboy

this has been a problem from as far back as i can recall...

you can equate it to being similar to cheating on a test/homework/etc... you typically don't learn anything cuz you are in a sense, cut and pasting like in a script...

stolzyboy