Employment - how much does a degree matter?

tbobker

Im just finishing my degree in internet technology and was just wondering if there were any employers or experienced people who have gone through what i will in the next few weeks - finding a job who can offer advice.

How much does a degree actually matter to an employer or if you have a protfolio that must be worth more to a graduate.

What im trying to say is, what do employers look for in a graduate or junior web developer / designer?

Just i think my 2:1 has slowly slipped away and i think im going to end up with a 2:2....bummer!

piersk

I had a conversation with an ex-colleague the other day who asked if it was worth the 4 years that I studied for. I said that no it wasn't as I'm not using anything now that I learnt in my degree. It's entirely self-taught. However, I had to have a degree for my current job and wouldn't have actually got it without one, so it's more that it's that you've been to Uni rather than what you've learnt.

stolzyboy

it's simple really...

To get into "most" places, yes, it is worth it, but in reality, no, it isn't, in our field, you will learn far more "on the job" or "self taught".

There is far more to programming than what they can teach you in college.

Typically classes move as fast as the slowest person.

NogDog

The degree itself (regardless of how much useful education you did or did not receive) serves a few useful purposes:

It helps you get interviews. (It helps you get past the initial HR screenings of resumes, and it shows that you can achieve long-term goals.)
Particularly in larger companies, it helps you start out at a higher pay scale. (A degree may not mean you are any better than someone without a degree but the same experience, but it's easier for the hiring manager to rationalize a higher pay with the "bean counters" if you have a degree.)
It allows you to pursue higher degrees, which can lead to even higher-paying jobs (system designers, project leads, management).

laserlight

Would a masters degree be of any use then, seeing that there are more and more graduates with honours degrees on the job market these days?

It is still to early to say (just ended first year of university, three more years to complete my direct honours degree), but I am considering studying for an extra year to get a masters degree by coursework.

NogDog

Personally, before putting the time and money into a masters degree, I would get out into the "real world" with a full-time job and get a feel for how things are done and where you see your place in the scheme of things. Then you can decide if you want to pursue a MS in comp.sci., or maybe a MBA and get into management, or get out of this crazy business altogeter. 😉 Also, many companies will subsidize further education to some degree, and with the sky-rocketing costs of college these days, that's a benefit not to be ignored.

Bunkermaster

I have no university/whatever training. The only difference it ever made was that in major corporations, I usually was getting less money than the people I managed (who did nothing but get drunk and learn outdated stuff in university for years). :glare:

Vaskerville

Degrees...smah...

The most important thing I want to know is if they are the kind of person who can get things done working in a group or on their own. And have enough smarts to understand what they need to learn in order to do a competent job.

They can get it perfect the next time around...

So sick of dealing with people who say they are doing something when they can't do so much as lift a finger or even respond to an email.

However, there is nothing wrong with a degree...I'm being dramatic up there. Just need to see execution abilities.

Roger_Ramjet

Reading the answers I get a funny feeling - like I just ate some sour grapes.

Here in the UK at least, you will not get an interview without a degree - except with some oddball firm, or someone looking for cheap labour.

Of course the degree does not mean you can do the job but you can't get the job without the degree. The same applies when it comes to certification, be it MS, Cisco, ITIL or whatever; if you've got it on your CV then you'll get the interview before someone with umpteen years hand-on experience. (and a few years ago it cost me £1000 to find out just how useless an MSP can be - those exams must be unfailable :xbones: )

Higher degrees are invaluable - when they are targeted. Don't do one in IT subjects if you have already got an IT first degree and several years experience: do an MBA in banking and finance if that is where you want to work, or manufacturing, or healthcare, or whatever industry you want to carve your career in. If you want to specialise in a technical function like data wharehousing, or networking then do a higher degree in Maths, or Statistics, etc.

Whatever you do, tbobker, don't listen to anyone who tells you degrees don't matter. Even if the degree is not relevant to the job, to an employer it proves that you are of a certain level of intelligence, can finish what you started, manage your own time and work to deadlines, etc.

invitro

Depends how you want to go through life. I think a degree is valuable, and you have NOT wasted 4 years in school.

Having said that, there are some people that work differently. Yes, like myself, I do not have a degree. However, I'm currently doing much better then most of my friends with degrees.

I think that the most important part of it all is the ability to show that you can excel in your field, which a degree helps you achieve. However, having experience and an extensive portfolio can also get you where you want to go.

Like the post above, a degree is an amazing thing to have because it will get you into a lot of places. However, it doesn't "guarantee" anything. If you have a degree and and an empty head you won't get very far anyway.

FusionComputers

Unfortunately, I've seen that with jobs, they require degrees. And on top of the degrees, they require working experience, and no one is willing to give experience. I applied to SIGARMS Inc in Exeter, NH. I told them I'd work for $15 an hour. I haven't gotten a call. I don't have an Associates, but I'm one semester away. Anyhow, the difficulty with Web programming is that companies also think you should be able to code and design graphics as well. I'm not persuing a degree in Art. I'm persuing a degree in Computer Science. I couldn't draw my way out of a wet paper bag... let alone design something in Photoshop. I'm a programmer. I'm not creative by any means.

Bunkermaster

FusionComputers wrote:
I'm a programmer. I'm not creative by any means.

heathen creature, programing requires a lot of creativity!

FusionComputers

Or just the ability to translate logic into code.

Weedpacket

FusionComputers wrote:
Or just the ability to translate logic into code.

Oh, is that all it requires? Gee, we should be able to get machines to do it then.

Oh, wait, we need programmers. I wonder why. Could it be that it requires creativity?

For some reason I can't find a copy online (probably because I stopped looking, and the source I found has dried up), but Richard Bornat's lecture "In defence of programming (the littlest birds sing the prettiest songs)" would be an adequate refutation of your claim.

Lots of people have it in for programming. Many industrialists would like to subject it to the factory system, with programmers as code-monkeys filling out the directions of designers. Some academics agree with them, despite the fact that programming is too hard to teach. Some politicians are happy to consign programming to the dustbin of "vocational education".

In reality programming is the hardest intellectual activity yet devised, a discipline of creative design making working machinery out of mathematical abstractions. Programming is formal logic brought to life.

Bunkermaster

applauds
funnily enough, when you think about programming and compare it to old time novels on magic, you start feeling a discomfortable parallel. We create artefacts with behaviors out of thin air and we can have them transform eachothers. We communicate with forbidden realms and we speak a language not quite that of humans.
A monkey can fly an airplane. I doubt a monkey could code even in cobol.

piersk

Bunkermaster wrote:
I doubt a monkey could code even in cobol.

I can't code in cobol. Does that make me a monkey?

Bunkermaster

me neither. let's go buy some peanuts and sit on a branch somewhere.

FusionComputers

Ok, fine... I'll rephrase. I'm a programmer, not an artist. I can't believe companies expect one to be both.

Roger_Ramjet

FusionComputers wrote:
Ok, fine... I'll rephrase. I'm a programmer, not an artist. I can't believe companies expect one to be both.

That is like saying you can't believe that people expect architects to design and build houses that are both beautiful to look at and comfortable to live in :rolleyes:

Weedpacket

Bunkermaster wrote:
We communicate with forbidden realms and we speak a language not quite that of humans.

And invoke daemons and refer to the best of us as "wizards".

let's go buy some peanuts and sit on a branch somewhere.

Love to join the two of you, but there's this script for "Hamlet" I've got to finish.