Terrible ad !!!

suntra

There is a terrible ad on PHPBuilder... it take most of the page and we have to use TAB to access links and then press enter !

I'm using Firefox...

bpat1434

And which ad is it? What's it for?

NogDog

I'm guessing it was the messed up drop-down menus at the very top of the page, which went bonkers for awhile this afternoon but seem to have been fixed now.

JPnyc

The server housing the CSS file wasn't making it available. Corrected now as you can see.

halojoy

I have to use AdBlocker at this site.

Not one single ad I can see no longer 😃 😃

And best of all:
Pages does not take ages to load ................... waiting for some 3rd party advertising Agency!
Made me feel sick before.

stolzyboy

bradgrafelman wrote:
Made me feel like I was helping keep a free forum alive and... free. shrug

most people don't get that to run these outfits you need money and having a free forum doesn't lend itself to gathering money so we have to place ads... if any user wants to donate thousands and thousands of dollars so they can keep up servers/employees/etc... i'm sure they wouldn't send it back

btw, i know brad you know this, but it sounded like i was talking to you

JPnyc

halojoy wrote:
I have to use AdBlocker at this site.

Not one single ad I can see no longer 😃 😃

And best of all:
Pages does not take ages to load ................... waiting for some 3rd party advertising Agency!
Made me feel sick before.

And stealing doesn't make you feel sick?

stolzyboy

No, it probably doesn't as it isn't a "tangible" good. Some people just don't get it.

JPnyc

Well if the forums are sold off or shut down, perhaps that'll make it more tangible LOL

stolzyboy

LOL, yeah, that'd do it, I reckon.

halojoy

There several ways to put necessary advertising into websites.
It does not have to be information collected from remote websites at every page load.
It can be advertising data that is stored at home server.

Now, I have a very fast connection (broadband) and can only imagine how slow loading from some slower connections.
For example in remote parts of our world.

In the end it is up to website owner.
If he wants people to see them ads, at all.
If people will get annoyed by advertisings, there are plenty of ways to filter.
Anybody will know this - and do this.

It is not the ads in themselves that is a bother.
It is the way they are put into and upset my browser,
when I try to surf websites in the internet.

At a site like phpbuilder where is so much web programming knowledge
you would expect they would handle these matters.
Handle it better than other websites can and will.

Regards

JPnyc

Incorrect. That would be fine if they were OUR ads, but they're not. Space is purchased on our sites, and they serve us their ads. We have precious little control over what happens after that point. I'm guessing you haven't worked in internet publishing. This arrangement we have is just about ubiquitous in the industry. It's the only way both the advertiser, and the publisher, can both keep track of how many times each ad loads.

JPnyc

That said, if an ad is messing up the whole page display, then we can request the advertiser fix it, and we can pull it until they do. But that's pretty much the extent to which we can exercise control. That's if we want to stay in this business.

etully

Filtering out ads isn't stealing.

Do you ever press the mute button or go to the kitchen when an ad comes on tv? Would it be stealing if I bought a newspaper and paid my secretary to tell me about the important stories (and not mention the ads)?

In the past, people watched ads because the benefit gained by removing them wasn't worth the trouble it took to remove them. That's the only reason. There was no obligation or moral duty to watch them. There certainly wasn't a written contract that we'd watch them - and there wasn't even an implied, unwritten contract. It was just a matter of inconvenience versus benefit.

The rules don't change just because Ad Blocker was invented. It's your job to place ads where people will see them. You are not doing your job very well if you put them on a web site because it's becoming very common for people to install Ad Blocker and IP filters. If you were to put your ads on the inside of a milk carton - am I a thief because you chose to put them where I wouldn't see them?

Just because the "Internet Publishing" business, as you call it, isn't Internet savvy enough to make money without ads doesn't mean that readers should impose rules on themselves that didn't exist there before. The problem isn't that I'm a thief - the problem is that the "Internet Publishing" business is too lazy to figure out how to use this new medium and wants to just treat it like it's a television or a magazine.

bpat1434

Hmm... nice try, but I have to disagree.

Ads on tv get run no matter what. Even if you mute it, you still see it. And even if you don't pay attention, it's there in the background noise (which you hear a lot of even if you don't notice it). Advertisers thrive on this "subliminal messaging". It's how it works. You might not want to jump up and go running to get that product; however, after about 30 times of noticing it, or hearing a jingle you tend to remember it. And that's what they want.

Now, translate that to here. There are advertisements. PHPBuilder leases out web-space to the advertisers for a fee. PHPBuilder gives them XX spots and says that somewhere between 50 and 60% of its community will see them. That's pretty reasonable. Now, if everyone has AdBlock or filters installed, PHPBuilder no-longer receives that ad-revenue because the advertisers know no-one will see their ads.

So we're using up their bandwidth, using their server-space, using their electric, taking from the community, and not giving anything back. How is that not stealing?

A loose definition of stealing is taking a service/product without payment or taking something that isn't yours. You don't pay for the bandwidth or server-space for this forum (as you shouldn't). But, one way you help is by just letting the ads be seen. Now, since PHPBuilder can be classified as a service, you're utilizing this service without giving back (not talking posting here) because you're not helping generate revenue for them. But for those that don't block ads, even though they may be asking all the questions, they are giving back to JupiterMedia as an external force by allowing the ads to be shown on their screen.

So you are stealing. And it's not that they're not internet saavy; rather, it's that people don't want to see ads like 3 or 4 years ago (before AdBlock and pop-up filters) where if you went to a "free" site, you got 7 windows asking to look at the neatest stuff.

You brought up the fact that if ads were placed on the inside of milk cartons, you're not a thief. In all actuality, you can't use that as a comparison. No ad company would ever place ads there (or agree to). Now, if you were to say put an ad up on a billboard, and someone shot the lights out so it was not visible in the dark, that's a better comparison.

Now, I'll leave you with this little economic quote and end my tirade:
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Think about that....

bpat1434

Oohh!! I know!! We can turn PHPBuilder into the next ExpertsExchange!! NOT!

And by that I mean, in order to even see an answer, you have to pay for a full year of viewing pleasure, not to mention, to ask questions, you have to have enough credits 😉 I bet they pocket a lot of money....

bpat1434

Haha... See, they don't pay me for nothing... wait.... hold on... crap... 🙁 They just don't pay me 🙁 🙁

bpat1434

Wait... a 100% raise from $0.00 is ... let me go get my calculator.... carry the 1..... yup, still 0 😉

Plus, I'm sure the raise you got was of a few digits on JP's hand 😛

etully

I still contend it's not stealing.

If Jupiter wants to be in an ad supported business, it's their obligation to put ads where people will see them. Placing ads on a web site is becoming as dumb as putting ads inside a milk carton (and will only get dumber as the years go on). I understand that Jupiter has to get paid - I have no problem with them making a buck - they should. But it's their job to find a way to get paid, not my job to artificially keep them in business by viewing ads that I can (and do) easily avoid.

Let's say they made a trillion dollars in ad revenue in 2001. Then ad blocker gets invented and they don't make as much. Then someone comes along and says, "Hey, here's a way for you to make money on the Internet without placing ads. It might not be the trillion dollars you made before (maybe less, maybe more), but at least you'll get to make money." Then it's Jupiter's job to decide if they can stay in business making that new level of money instead. There's no guarantees in life. Just because you made money selling horse shoes in 1900 doesn't mean that you have a right to keep making money selling them when cars get invented. Sorry, that's life. You can accept the Internet or not, whichever you like. But making your customers feel guilty about avoiding ads doesn't seem like a good business plan to me.

Watching ads just boils down to the benefit versus inconvenience balance I described before. Just because running ads worked on television doesn't mean you have some god given right to make money the same way now that the Internet is here.

bpat1434

it's their obligation to put ads where people will see them

And on the website, people will see them. Would you rather they start sending you emails with the ads in them? Then they become spam mail.

But it's their job to find a way to get paid, not my job to artificially keep them in business by viewing ads that I can (and do) easily avoid.

They found a way to get paid. They're leasing space on their website to relevant advertisers. And as a user of this forum, it's your job to support it any way you can (including viewing the ads).

But making your customers feel guilty about avoiding ads doesn't seem like a good business plan to me.

What did you purchase here? Nothing. So you can't call yourself a customer. And we're not making you feel guilty, just saying that if you won't support the ad revenue that comes in to keep this place free, you're essentially riding on the coat-tails of others (which is stealing).

Just because running ads worked on television doesn't mean you have some god given right to make money the same way now that the Internet is here.

Are you old enough to remember when Cable television was paid for out of viewers' pocket because you paid for no ad television? The initial reason you paid those high prices was because you didn't have to see advertisements 😉 Over the air television is free, so is this forum. The way they keep the TV stations airing is by serving ads every few minutes. Same thing here. We could charge you just as easily (how's $150.00 per year, plus $10 per issue over your first 3 sound?).

Since you seem to be all high & mighty with JM needing to find a way to make money other than ad revenue, what do you propose they do? Please, tell me how a corporation that doesn't sell services or products can make money without charging its community?

Seriously, it may not be within the book definition of stealing, but you are using the servers and the bandwidth which incurs costs, but you're not helping cover them. So you're burdening everyone else that views the ads to see more ads (or ads more frequently). Now, if everyone viewed the ads, I'm sure there could be maybe 1 or 2 ads on the page, instead of 3 or 4.

Oh, and think of it this way, the ads are at least placed outside the forum area, so you're not scrolling through ads in order to read the posts. They could just as easily throw ads in between every post so you're forced to see it.