How much would you charge to make this site?

hadoob024

MODERATOR NOTE: Discussion of actual payment rates is not allowed on this site. You may discuss methods used to arrive at estimates and charges, but do not suggest any pay scales, hourly rates, etc. -- NogDog

I couldn't figure out which might be the appropriate forum for this topic, so I'm going to post it here. I've been asked to make a site similar to the following:

http://www.shehnaibridalshow.com/

They asked me how much I want to make the site, and I couldn't figure it out, so I thought I would post it here. How much would you charge this person to make a similar site?

The-Master

Work out how long it will take you to make it, how much you think you deserve per hour of work (within reason) then multiply it up and ask them if they would pay you that amount, and give them the reason why, ie. "This site will take me 4 hours to make so I think a reasonable amount of pay would be $xx". Something like that.

(Discussion of actual pay rates are not allowed on these forums -- NogDog)

hadoob024

I was thinking along the same lines too. I was just wondering how people factor in stuff like, is it a simple HTML site. Is there PHP involved? If so, how much? Like this site has 4 static pages. Then there's 2 pages with forms and form processing. One of the form pages also involves processing a payment (through PayPal). Then there might be a chance that this customer wants a photo site, where only logged in users can access them (which I know is the next level of complexity). So I was trying to find out also how people take these factors into consideration.

NogDog

Get as much info as you can squeeze from the client as to what their functional requirements are.
Analyze those requirements and break them down into individual "deliverables", and where necessary break those deliverables down further into component tasks.
Estimate the time as well as any additional costs (licenses, etc.) needed to accomplish each task (don't forget time for testing and fixing!). Factor in whatever pay rate per unit time you want to charge to get the sub-total for each task. (A spreadsheet program or similar is a good way to organize this.)
Fudge the numbers based on what you feel the client will be willing to spend and how much/little you are willing to do the job for.
Provide this initial estimate (including the descriptions of the deliverables/tasks) to the client for their feedback. (They may decide the don't really need certain features, but they need this additional functionality for that feature, etc.)
Repeat steps 1-5 until an agreement is reached.

7. Make it absolutely clear to the client that any further changes in requirements will require that you recalculate your fee.

mykg4orce

You first need to know what your skill level is and whether you can deliever everything the client is asking for.

You need to consider the following (for example):
1) Will the client need to perform updates? If yes, who will do it? If you have to do it, what will you charge? Or will you incorporate a CMS to facilitate content creation?
2) How many hours are needed to design the site? What if the client doesn't like my initial design? How many hours should I accommodate to design?
3) How many hours will it take to program the site? What program will I use?
4) What arrangement will be worked out to facilitate updates to the site and so on? Do I include this in my cost now? or Do I charge on a case to case basis?
5) Does the client know about hosting/domain costs?
6) Should you charge a lump sum fee? or charge by the hour? Surprisingly some clietns may be hesitant to pay hourly because that sometimes means it could take xxxx number of hours with no end in sight. Where as you were to say I will charge $xxxx from start to finish with regular updates to the content. You must make this determination and present the case to the client.

There are many more factors that will come to light when you start building the site. Always have a buffer for yourself. Never undercharge and feel guilty for asking more than you initially promised. You can overcharge (reasonably) but promise the client that you will do everything to satisfy their needs.

rsmith

Whatever you do get EVERYTHING in writing.

hadoob024

That's what I was thinking. I'm doing this first site for a friend (I know, HUUUGE mistake!!!), so I don't mind doing it for cheap. The problem is, that she works with a partner, and the partner needs several other sites done as well. I don't want her to assume that I'm going to do those other projects for as cheap as I'm doing this initial site. So I'm just trying to figure out what all I need to take into consideration to quote a figure for what I'm going to charge.

Man, doing freelance development is WAAAAY harder than just working for a company where you get that steady paycheck and don't have to deal with this. Who knew!

rulian

I find it to be too often that clients and developers get ahead of themselves when it comes to billing. You cant realistically come up with a budget for a project without details as to what they want to have, not have and where they woudl want to take the site in the future. So first steps first you need to talk to your client and get a sense of what they want. However more often then not clients wont have a clue about what they want in terms of specifics. They will say "I want to make a photography website" which to them seems simple but to a developer is not specific enough. The difference is the client doesnt know any better and the developer should.

So my proccess basically consists of first determining whether or not the client has a clue as to what they want or are asking for. If not try to guide them in such a way to make more concrete decisions. If it's for a business ask them how their proccesses work get to understand a bit of what they do and see if a website can be really helpful is some ways more then other. Kind of the "philosophical" approach first.

With this information you assemble a project scope. The scope consists of things you would have, would like to have on the site. It's basically a general idea of what it will and will not include. These are the ideas that you put in that you or the client thinks will be useful. The scope also addresses what the clients role will be on the site in terms of their active participation in certain areas.

One they have a more clear idea of what to they are getting you can do a proposal. With the information of what they want out of the site you can use to estimate your hours and production costs and come up with a budget for the project. Often times step 2 and 3 are combined in sort of packages. To say "okay for 1500 you can get this, but for 3k you can get this, and 6 k you can get this."

Once they buy of a proposal you should have a good idea in terms of resources you'll need and timeframe for developing a project.

All this to basically say you cannot reasonably do an estimate with alot of IF's because production time can vary greatly.
I get that "I want a business website with flash, how much do you charge for that" types of questions, and unfortunately I've seen some developers promise their clients the world for a small budget without understanding what is involved.

Also know clients will ALWAYS try to change or add things to the project. You can be a prick about it like me and stick to your guns in certain things but that old saying is true the customer is always right. However, just because they want more work out of you does not mean they are willing to pay you more.

My theory is your should be paid for all work you do. But not everyone agrees

rulian

damn alot of posts occured while I was typing

hadoob024

Cool. I think I definitely have a better understanding of how to approach this now. Thanks a bunch!

Here's another follow-up. What does everyone do here in terms of design, graphics, etc.? Are you people mostly just programmers, or do you provide the whole package? How do you take this into account too?

rsmith

I do the whole package but for clients that demand really unique and custom graphics, I outsource to my graphic designer friend.

hadoob024

So on top of your programming skills, you're fairly comfortable with something like Photoshop or whatever?

rsmith

For most things I do I use PSPX. For high-end stuff I outsource. I also use SWiSH Max for my flash development since the most flash my clients want are just nifty navigation sequences. Which I'm starting to steer away from in favor of CSS based navigation.

hadoob024

Yeah, I've used swish before. Neat little program. Customers seem to love the results of it.

Thanks everyone for their input!

rulian

@:
I'd say if you want to be in good standing definately get familiar with photoshop and design tools.
I learned photoshop, illustrator and other packages before programming and it's defiinately come in handy. I work for an ad agency and all they give me are psd's and jpegs and I gotta turn that into websites.

I'm assuming if your on an IT section of a dba department you can get by without it

hadoob024

Cool. Thanks. Yeah, before I just sat there coding. You, "I need you to write these 5 functions by the end of the week", not caring for design, layout, aesthetics, etc. Now from that I'm going into designing whole websites. COMPLETELY different ballgame!

NogDog

My artistic skills are...um...limited. However, I am proficient enough with The Gimp to manipulate graphics for use in a web page layout. But if I want professional quality graphics, I'll get someone more artistic than I am to create the graphics and maybe come up with color schemes and such, which I can then incorporate into the site with my minimal graphics skills and fairly advanced HTML/CSS skills.

hadoob024

Hehehe. Cool. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Great with HTML. Really good with PHP. Kinda a newb with CSS. And, uh, hmmm... how should I say it, crappy graphics abilities, although I can re-size images like a champ 🙂

pohopo

If all I have to do is exactly what was said and provided ZERO support after then I would charge cheap. If any type of support/updates is involved then multiply your cost by 10-20 times. Even then it might not be worth it.

hadoob024

You're talking about your hourly rate, right? Like if I charge $x/hr., if support/updates are required, then you're saying bill at like $10x/hr.?