Zend, CakePHP, CodeIgniter, or Symfony?

philosophology

1- Why would I need a framework?
2- Why would I care to PAY for a framework when the free versions exist?
3- If I would want to pick one, which one would you recommend? why?

NogDog

To make a large web application implementation organized, manageable, and maintainable.
Possible reasons: the price [/i]may[/i] include a support contract that will provide a higher level of support than you would get with a free one, and the product might better support your particular needs.
I'll have to leave this one up to those with more experience with those products, though some of it will have to come down to what your particular needs are, how you like to code and work, what sort of project you are working on, etc.

philosophology

I looked over all of them but they seem to all have a learning curve. What if I pick one and then see that it is not what I wanted? Then I have to learn a new thing over?
I'm exploring my options since I will be building a couple of large database driven websites.
What do the support contracts give me?

Weedpacket

philosophology wrote:
I looked over all of them but they seem to all have a learning curve.

Odd: I thought people were just born knowing how to use them.

Vaskerville

Learn PHP first...then all these frameworks are pretty easy to understand. Just have different techniques for things.

philosophology

Do any of you use a framework? and why did you chose to use one and why that particular one?

dougal85

I've used a bit of Zend. It's nicely structured, well tested and you don't need to include the whole library if you just want something specific.

pohopo

I would stick with Plain Old PHP (POP) and create your own framework. It is not all that hard and you can make it specific for you. The problem with using another Framework is it might be popular today, but not tomorrow. Next year there will be another framework flavor.

dougal85

Just what PHP needs. Another framework. I don't envy anybody that has to maintain the code.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller#PHP (MVC Frameworks ONLY!)

You know, I cant decide what programming language to learn next, I might just make one... next year there will be another flavour of language anyway.

Any suggestions for the name?

pohopo

Call it MYLIB (MY Language Is Better)

Sherman

From my short experience:

1- Why would I need a framework?

To save yourself many hours of work, i.e;
If you are willing to use 3-4 days of your time to learn a framework, and thanks to that investment in time save 75% of your time in building all your future applications, those 3-4 days are really a good deal!

2- Why would I care to PAY for a framework when the free versions exist?
I wouldn't pay when you have good tested free ones.

3- If I would want to pick one, which one would you recommend? why?
Not much experience here. I've started with cakephp and am amazed at the things I can do with small learning curve. Some people also talk about Ruby on rails, but that's a framework that doesn't use php.

stolzyboy

Sherman wrote:
From my short experience:

1- Why would I need a framework?

To save yourself many hours of work, i.e;
If you are willing to use 3-4 days of your time to learn a framework, and thanks to that investment in time save 75% of your time in building all your future applications, those 3-4 days are really a good deal!

Most people have a codebase that they take from. If you've developed enough, you'll have your own large codebase so you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.

I used zend framework once and didn't find it really beneficial.

I'll stick to my codebase method.

blackhorse

I have my own codebase like stolzyboy did. It is clean, simple, expandable, flexible for our team. The best of it is that the art/creative designer can just use traditional html approach to reformat the user front end page as WYSIWYG. And the backend admin is consistent. The site owners (our clients) can catch up in 5 - 15 minutes. And I can add new features/modules/functions etc. easily. I have used 3rd party systems in quit a few projects too such as phpbb, occommerce, zen-cart, drupal etc., and I also keep on using 3rd party as my study and reference tools.

It is 50:50 cases based on php developers own choice, 3rd party or your own codes.

But when I look at the local php developers market. It seems that no employers are looking for php developers with his own codebase, even that codebase might be great (portfolio and quick check on the code can tell that.), most employers are looking for php developers with extensive experience on certain 3rd party systems. And even on the 3rd party systems, the systems require less experience overrule the ones require more experience. (such as drupal developers overrules code igniter developers). Or so many of the employers require MVC etc. (MVC or not, I thought it should be an option.)

I was wondering if I should follow the industry trend (not necessary the developers' trend) later on, maybe I should just do it earlier. So far, 3rd party or my own code base, or which 3rd party, I still use my own call, but how long I could continue to do that?

blackhorse

If a web company with established business in a few industries and with the its own code bases working well for years, should it stay with its own code bases? Easy for them to update, develop the codes on their own for the special products without waiting for the update versions of the general purposes 3rd party system/cms/codes/framework, etc.. Easy for them to do the custom design without get their hands tied up by the 3rd party.

Or if a big company with their own in house team to develop web sites by itself, should it use their own code base for almost the same reasons?

Or sooner or later, own code base will fade away, fast food codes will occupy the most market?