Thoughts on IDE's??

amy_damnit

I am new to PHP, but eager to become a "pro" ASAP!

What does everyone think about using an IDE with PHP?

What tools do you use?

I installed Eclipse PDT All-In-One on my MacBook. I am getting the hang of it, but it still doesn't seem as user-friendly as the code editors/IDE I'm used to in the Microsoft world. sigh

It is also frustrating in that there aren't any active and dedicated forums on Eclipse PDT, so I am hoping my fellow PHP developers can help guide me.

Happy Holidays,

Amy

NogDog

There are a number of discussions in the "Echo Lounge" sub-forum here you might want to peruse. In the end, you'll find the answer is: everyone has his/her favorite.

If you put a dozen programmers in a room to decide how to implement a project, they will agree on the programming language, operating system, support libraries, etc. long before they will agree on an IDE. 🙂

amy_damnit

I understand that there are lots of chocies, however, I would guess that there are 2 or 3 top choices among PHP developers.

Moreso, I would guess there are fewer viable options for Mac.

So, what do you use, and why?

Amy

NogDog

Any of the Eclipse-based options should run on Mac, as they are Java-based, such as Aptana, Zend Studio, and PDT. NetBeans is also Java-based so should be Mac-compatible.

I've been using PHPDesigner, but it is Windows-only. I've played around with both Apatana and NetBeans, and while both have their good points, they suffer somewhat in performance compared to PHPDesigner, likely a result of their Java implementation. (It seems to me though that NetBeans is a bit peppier than Aptana.) The only real problem I have with PHPDesigner is it's inability to do multi-line search/replace opeartions (or my inability to find out how to do it).

amy_damnit

NogDog;10896922 wrote:
Any of the Eclipse-based options should run on Mac, as they are Java-based, such as Aptana, Zend Studio, and PDT. NetBeans is also Java-based so should be Mac-compatible.

Eclipse PDT does run on my MacBook, however I'm not sure how to get the Code Debugger to work... (The documentation is poor and there are few decent resources online from what I can see.) 🙁

NogDog;10896922 wrote:
I've been using PHPDesigner, but it is Windows-only. I've played around with both Apatana and NetBeans, and while both have their good points, they suffer somewhat in performance compared to PHPDesigner, likely a result of their Java implementation. (It seems to me though that NetBeans is a bit peppier than Aptana.) The only real problem I have with PHPDesigner is it's inability to do multi-line search/replace opeartions (or my inability to find out how to do it).

I'm looking into Net Beans now. It looks intersting, but again, one key feature I want from an IDE are things like: Debugging, Code Step-through, Breakpoints, Variable Watches, etc. (If I just needed a pretty editor, there are a million choices.)

Doesn't anyone else on here see the value in the features I mentioned?? :bemused:

In VBA, I could put in a "Breakpoint" and step through my code (and variables) on line at a time and watch how my code broke.

That capability helped me debug code a million times faster...

Amy

jazz_snob

I'd be interested in knowing how many php developers use step-wise execution to debug their code. I don't. Not to say I don't need it or wouldn't like being able to. We don't use it at work either, either with PHP or with development in SSA ERP-LN (which is a tier-one, gazillion dollar enterprise ERP application).

I'm using eclipse w/ pdt. If I need a debugger I turn on X-Debug extension but don't use anything through eclipse. I've never needed to step thru code although that would be cool. Worst case I throw in a var_dump() in the source where I think the offender might be.

My obstacle right is that my code is not on the same machine as my editor. I have the code directory mounted on my local machine. I think that raises complications because eclipse is looking for a path to PHP executible to use the debugging feature, but there is no PHP on my machine, its on the server. Anyway, I haven't tried because its low priority.

amy_damnit

jazz_snob;10897066 wrote:
I'd be interested in knowing how many php developers use step-wise execution to debug their code. I don't. Not to say I don't need it or wouldn't like being able to. We don't use it at work either, either with PHP or with development in SSA ERP-LN (which is a tier-one, gazillion dollar enterprise ERP application).

Hmmm... I'm confused by your comments.

Do you think "stepping through code"' using an IDE is a bad idea?

(To me, "stepping through code", "variable watches" and "breakpoints" are the only TRUE reasons to use an IDE. Most people fixate too much on "matching brackets" and "code completion" in my opinion.)

There is no reason you can't use those robust IDE features on PHP in addition to C, C++, J2EE, etc.

jazz_snob;10897066 wrote:
I've never needed to step thru code although that would be cool. Worst case I throw in a var_dump() in the source where I think the offender might be.

But that is where IDE's save you time... Avoiding having to add all those "print lines" and "var dumps".

Amy

NogDog

I have to admit I've never bothered with the debugger in any PHP IDE. With PHP being a non-precompiled language, it's always been so easy to manually create a "breakpoint" that I just insert something like the following where I want a "breakpoint" then run the script again:

var_dump($variableOfInterest);
exit;

I'm not saying using all the debug features of an IDE would not be better, just that I've never felt any pressure to do so. Maybe if I start, though, I'll wonder why I waited. 🙂

amy_damnit

NogDog;10897128 wrote:
I'm not saying using all the debug features of an IDE would not be better, just that I've never felt any pressure to do so. Maybe if I start, though, I'll wonder why I waited. 🙂

It seems that a lot of people bash IDE users as "wimps" - I certainly have gotten that sense from others I've asked for help on this topic - but those critics miss the point for IDE's...

To be more efficient.

Anyone can code successfully in NotePad, but nobody can code as efficiently using the right tool as opposed to some manual way. (Why use buckets when a garden hose is easier?)

I agree IDE's can get in the w ay, and sometimes it is easier to use TextEdit, but for the most part IDE's make your lifee easier, and especially when you are learning a new language, they help get you up to speed so much quicker.

And for us "mortals", stepping through your code and seeing variable values and exactly where your code fails - logically or physically - just makes sense.

But we all have different working styles, I suppose.

Amy

NogDog

Just to be clear here, I would never use Notepad to write PHP code (or any other code) unless it was the only option. Anyone who "bashes" others for using any available tools that make programming faster is probably a hobbyist with no deadline/budget pressures hanging over his/her head (or doesn't report directly to those who deal with such pressures). 😉

amy_damnit

NogDog;10897132 wrote:
Anyone who "bashes" others for using any available tools that make programming faster is probably a hobbyist with no deadline/budget pressures hanging over his/her head (or doesn't report directly to those who deal with such pressures). 😉

Well said, NogDog, well said! (Although you would be amazed at what people on the Internet say/think sometimes...)

Amy

laserlight

amy.damnit wrote:
What tools do you use?

I use Geany for my text editor. Note that I only work on relatively trivial PHP scripts these days, so my needs may be different from yours.

amy.damnit wrote:
(To me, "stepping through code", "variable watches" and "breakpoints" are the only TRUE reasons to use an IDE. Most people fixate too much on "matching brackets" and "code completion" in my opinion.)

Since an IDE provides tool integration, you do not even need to use an IDE to use a debugger. 😉 (Though editor + debugger integration usually makes it easier to debug.)

Matching braces/brackets/parentheses and code completion are editor features, hence some "pure" programming text editors include them. Some people might like to have their version control tools integrated with the IDE, while others may prefer to have the version control tool integration be done with the desktop environment (e.g., TortoiseCVS and TortoiseSVN). In the case of PHP, since file transfer is a common use case, integrating a file transfer client might be useful... but I prefer to just use FileZilla.

foyer

Here's an article I found that is related..

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-ide/index.html

amy_damnit

foyer;10897417 wrote:
Here's an article I found that is related..

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-ide/index.html

Actually I have read this article a couple of times in the past. However, I also FORGOT that I read it, so I re-read it again this time thanks to your suggestions! :p

(Too bad they don't writet an updated one including NetBeans 6.5)

Thanks,

Amy

jazz_snob

amy.damnit;10897124 wrote:
Hmmm... I'm confused by your comments.

Do you think "stepping through code"' using an IDE is a bad idea?

(To me, "stepping through code", "variable watches" and "breakpoints" are the only TRUE reasons to use an IDE. Most people fixate too much on "matching brackets" and "code completion" in my opinion.)

There is no reason you can't use those robust IDE features on PHP in addition to C, C++, J2EE, etc.

But that is where IDE's save you time... Avoiding having to add all those "print lines" and "var dumps".

Amy

My only point was I don't use a debugger, but I do use eclipse (and jedit and vim). I rely heavily on unit testing, but even there I find the need to var_dump() when I start banging my head on why something isn't working.

I think I'm gonna have to get off my butt and hook up x-debug w/ eclipse...my only problem being that both at work and at home my php files and php itself are on a different machine than my editor which I'm pretty sure will create a problem, hence the inertia in getting this hooked up.

Did you choose an IDE?

amy_damnit

jazz_snob;10898668 wrote:
My only point was I don't use a debugger, but I do use eclipse (and jedit and vim). I rely heavily on unit testing...

I think I'm gonna have to get off my butt and hook up x-debug w/ eclipse...

Did you choose an IDE?

Hi JazzSnob! 🙂

Yah, it is my opinion that you are missing the MAIN benefit of using an IDE, but to each his own!

To answer your last question, I have been mega-busy trying to find a job and also moving!! :queasy:

I installed NetBeans 6.5 and I think (?) I got XDebug working with it. I did some test a week or so ago, and it worked on the test code/tutorial on their website. It didn't seem quite as robust as what I'm used to using with Microsoft, however, I really only touched 5% of the features.

I am hoping that how I got XDebug to work for NetBeans will be similar to Eclipse as I'd like to learn BOTH of them! 😃

I would encourage everyone to spend some serious time over at NetBeans website. Their website looks like it was halfway built by people who speak English and have decent writing skills!! There are some semi-useful videos and lots of web resources.

Unfortunately my PHP and IDE days are on hold for this month while I look for a job and move, but I'll be back!!

Maybe when I come back you (and others) can report on what it's like using a debugger with PHP?! :p

Talk to ya soon,

Amy

rulian

What types of bugs are you guys discussing?
Am I the only idiot that uses PHP's "line error on.." to debug?
I'm using Dreaweaver CS4 and that has a JS debugger on it which is cool but I still use yee old' script Firefox's JS console and a bunch of browsers.
I dont use libraries other then the few shared components I've built over time so I guess that is where I go "Maverick"

laserlight

rulian wrote:
What types of bugs are you guys discussing?

The type where the script runs perfectly... except that the results are not correct.

rulian wrote:
Am I the only idiot that uses PHP's "line error on.." to debug?

The errors reported by the PHP interpreter are useful when you make mistakes that the PHP interpreter can detect, but for bugs due to logic errors, a debugger becomes very useful.