PHP + Dreamweaver

rodnice

Just a quick question to you pros. I'm new to PHP and Dreamweaver (probably because I was playing more Halo than keeping up with technology). Just wanted to know what you guys have experienced using Dreamweaver to code PHP.

Do you code in the design window or just Notepad everything in PHP and then do the Dreamweaver stuff after you get the majority of the functionality coded?

Thanx much

coldwerturkey

Typically, for small stuff, you design the site in html/css/javascript via design/code view, and add the php after via code view.

But thats really not true at all because how you use it depends on a million of different things, including personal preference, individual workflow, and most importantly the project/task at hand.

Weedpacket

But why would one want to use Notepad at all when there are so many real text editors out there (see the list in the Echo Lounge FAQ)?

Notepad is just a Windows text control with some menus around it.

examancer

Notepad can't even handle unix-style line breaks very well. I avoid it. I usually use a simple text editor, preferably with syntax highlighting... pretty much anything BUT notepad.

nrg_alpha

I use Dreamweaver and really like it. I code everything exlcusively within Dreamweaver, as there is no logic to using say notepad for some stuff, then switch over to Dreamweaver for other things.. (I don't think I ever mentioned Dreamweaver so many times in such a small block of text).

I don't use the WYSIWYG (design) aspect however.. I prefer to get down and dirty in code up to my elbows and manually type it all out.. it puts more hair on your chest and builds character. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

There are some 'shortcuts' such as drag-and-dropping an image from your files panel into the main code window (which automatically dumps an img tag pointing to that file) for instance. Stuff like that I make use of.. but overall, I'm comfortable with coding by hand.

NogDog

nrg_alpha;10898371 wrote:
...What doesn't kill you makes you stronger....

That's what I say about alcohol: sure, it kills brain cells, but only the weak ones.

coldwerturkey

nrg_alpha;10898371 wrote:
I don't use the WYSIWYG (design) aspect however.. I prefer to get down and dirty in code up to my elbows and manually type it all out.. it puts more hair on your chest and builds character.

I like your style.

nrg_alpha

coldwerturkey;10898391 wrote:
I like your style.

When I first got Dreamweaver, I tired out the 'designer' mode, just to see where the control was. It was like taking candy from a baby.......

I was the baby 🙁

rodnice

Yeah, I can live without Dreamweaver myself. XHTML all handcoded I find easier, but I'm not sure if I would go bragging about "I hand code everything" to a potential employer if it's a Dreamweaver type of place.

That's probably my main concern... getting pigeon-holed as someone not being able to do all stuff in Dreamweaver.

nrg_alpha

rodnice;10898845 wrote:
Yeah, I can live without Dreamweaver myself. XHTML all handcoded I find easier, but I'm not sure if I would go bragging about "I hand code everything" to a potential employer if it's a Dreamweaver type of place.

I don't code for a living. It's all for fun. So this is a non-issue from where I stand.
Oddly enough.. whenever I do run across job postings for a web developer, I often see that they are not interested in WYSIWYG coding methods.

But admittedly, the reasoning might be simply that they want to know that you actually know what you are doing as opposed to relying on the software for everything.

As far as I'm concerned, it's better to be a good hand-coder that can adapt to IDE shortcuts / strengths (be it Dreamweaver or otherwise) than to rely on those software packages to successfully pull it off.. Or phrased differently, if I am an employer, and I am out to hire a web developer, I would be more interested in knowing that he / she doesn't rely on an IDE as a 'crutch', but instead, knows the how to code quite well.
IDEs will take care of the rest.

bretticus

I do code for a living (as I'm not doing right now and should be 🙂 I have absolutely no problem whatsoever coding around a design. I have been in this business for 10 years and my opinion of the whole "hand coders only" mantra is that it is completely absurd. It's one thing to know html inside and out, but why not take advantage of quickly tacking up a general design and coding around it to save time and effort? Yes, if your prospective Web developer can't even handcode html, you don't hire him or her, but you find that out up front. Yes, you need to know HTML well for tight spots. Otherwise, why brush aside the advantages of a RAD tool for pride? Absurd!

I suppose I should state that I never use a WYSIWYG editor but that is primarily because we have designers that do the layout for me. I use Zend Studio myself which offers no WYSIWYG capabilities. If I were responsible for the layout and the coding I would not hesitate to use the designer in DW.

nrg_alpha

It's one thing to know html inside and out, but why not take advantage of quickly tacking up a general design and coding around it to save time and effort?

That's why I mentioned I don't code for a living, therefore this is [for me] a non-issue.

I would imagine most web developer / design firms would most likely use one of their own custom built templates as a start to work off of (at least, this makes sense to me). This would be the ultimate time saver (once templates are build, be it via WYSIWYG or otherwise, working off of that would be even faster down the road if a particular template suites a particular project's needs [build enough of them, and there shouldn't be too much of a problem]).

Thus, one could argue (I suppose) that all WYSIWYG is useful for is initial layout setup for the purpose of template constructing... Afterall, why re-invent the wheel when you have a many templates stockpiled around that you can work off of? It's even faster to manipulate a ready built template than even doing things via WYSIWYG all over again from scratch.

In any case, I for one am no fan of those aspects of IDEs and will stick to hand-coding everything (with the use of code suggestions, drag and drop functionality to generate certain tags among other shortcuts).

Weedpacket

bretticus wrote:
I suppose I should state that I never use a WYSIWYG editor but that is primarily because we have designers that do the layout for me. I use Zend Studio myself which offers no WYSIWYG capabilities. If I were responsible for the layout and the coding I would not hesitate to use the designer in DW.

I think this relates to nrg_alpha's observation about

nrg_alpha wrote:
whenever I do run across job postings for a web developer, I often see that they are not interested in WYSIWYG coding methods.

Designers and developers are typically two different beasts in professional shops. Dreamweaver I take it (I haven't used it in at least five years, and then it was only incidentally) is supposed to be usable by both, to avoid potentially lossy import/export roundtrips between the two camps. The same could go for other IDEs that do a "source view" and a "design view" I suppose, but often the focus is on one of the two and the other is a "oh, while we're here let's take a look" kind of thing.