The pain of "stuck in their ways" higher ups

christillis

Hi All,

I'm sorry, but I must vent!

I work for a small company (12 full time staff 5 of which are directors) and to record time spent on projects we've used spreadsheets for years. The process is:

Create/update a spreadsheet placed within each jobfolder
Accounts person manually checks each one to see if it needs invoicing, or is told by project manager.
Accounts person creates new word doc (based on template) and manually inserts costs and time spent, etc.
Invoice sent out.

Downsides:

Project files have hundreds of files, difficult to locate, have to manually insert fee per hour with EVERY ENTRY, because it cannot be opened by two users each member has their own spreadsheet. The list goes on!

SO I SUGGESTED:

Using PHP/MySQL I created a jobsheet system. A nice and simple webpage where project ref, description, time, expenses, etc. are entered. ...I'm sure you all know the rest!

Because of the slow down, it's low on priorities, fair enough. But some people with old heads are not convinced we need it, "because life isn't for efficiency". Now I'm not a twenty something anymore and all I know is that the MORE efficient I am at work, the quicker I can go home or do other things at work!

HAS ANYONE ELSE BEEN IN THIS SITUATION, WHERE PEOPLE ARE STUCK IN THEIR WAYS AND NOT PREPARED TO TRY SOMETHING...DARE I SAY IT, "DIFFERENT AND BETTER". ????????

Rant over. 😃

djjjozsi

i know a lot about this situation 🙂

and i'm not talking about just one program, they are called: tools

And i've made a tool to make tools 🙂))

regards 🙂

christillis

djjjozsi;10902924 wrote:
i know a lot about this situation 🙂

and i'm not talking about just one program, they are called: tools

And i've made a tool to make tools 🙂))

regards 🙂

Thanks for responding djjjozsi. Yep, we have a 'tool' at work that's nearly twice my age!

The problem is, like most decision makers in the past, if a person spends a lot of time on something, they are likely to think they are right. When really, they've immersed themselves in the answer they've created. Does that make sense?

Anyway, sod them! I'm going to find a local business and create a FREE DB related system, I just need the practice and mentally must have a purpose to what I'm creating as I'm learning.

All the best 🙂

Weedpacket

christillis wrote:
"because life isn't for efficiency"

I've never heard this one before - it sounds utterly meaningless but I'm willing to bet that it (a) conflicts with "time is money" and (b) the higher-ups say that, too.

christillis

Weedpacket;10902988 wrote:
I've never heard this one before - it sounds utterly meaningless but I'm willing to bet that it (a) conflicts with "time is money" and (b) the higher-ups say that, too.

Well that's what I thought!

Perhaps I'm over-thinking this (it has been known), but eventually competitors will be able to move in because they are more time efficient. So why shouldn't we beat them to the punch?

Despite there being a recession and that, I think we should take this opportunity to research things like this, not mope around waiting to receive a paycut or be made redundant????????

Bunkermaster

christillis;10902901 wrote:
(12 full time staff 5 of which are directors)

Did you receive the memo about the new TPS report cover sheet? :glare:

djjjozsi

Bunkermaster;10903552 wrote:
Did you receive the memo about the new TPS report cover sheet? :glare:

that film is the best 🙂

christillis

Bunkermaster;10903552 wrote:
Did you receive the memo about the new TPS report cover sheet? :glare:

Ah ha! We're only a small company, so no one cares! 😃

cretaceous

had almost identical problem at a place I worked a few years ago

several of us told the production manager what needed to be done - cos she was the one doing all the Excel input (of course it did help justify her existence)

so nothing happens for months, years in fact, then she asks two of who are not too busy to plan it BUT SHE DOES NOT MENTION TO EITHER OF US that she asked the other person

so a third person wanders over a week or two later and says 'yo dude, wots happenin man, wot you doin?'
(ok I'm trying to make it more exciting now) - and he then says " thats odd - it looks just like the thing Karl is working on"

aaarg!

I left not long after

a few months later they spent 30 thousand pounds on a commercial system - (just for the web dev department that is)

the reports back were that it was ok but nothing special

it was a very big advertising agency
the bigger the company the more idiots you'll find

ps: said production manager once asked 'what is the difference between an OS and Flash ?'

christillis

Rage!

It's stories like yours cretaceous, and mine that provides the REAL REASON for people starting up companies on their own! Just think, if companies really were structured correctly, no one would leave thinking, "I can do much better" and their competition would be reduced!

You made the right decision to leave for sure!

As much as I understand why people 'make' work for themselves, it angers me soooo much! Only this morning I saw a non-excel spreadsheet being used in word - full page of calculations being done manually with a traditional calculator. "You know that's what excel's for?", I said, trying not to sound sarcastic....

...."Oh I haven't got time for that!" was the response.

Good grief.

Roger_Ramjet

I'm in the same boat right now and I just don't know what to say. I get so frustrated that it makes me swear.:mad:

Weedpacket

I just heard a joyous bit of news (well, it was yesterday, but this thread just reminded me).

There's been a lot of carry-on about a new toll road in Auckland and the tolling system that's in place. The organisation in charge is very proud of its cutting-edge twenty-first century Internet-based tolling system, that gives regular users the option of setting up an account via a web site (never mind the fact that the first time it went live it used an unencrypted connection).

The other day, one guy signed up, and got emailed his new account details, as you'd expect, but he also got emailed the new account details of someone else.

The official excuse? "Human error: a customer service rep accidentally sent out the wrong details to the customer."

Discussion questions:

How accurate do you think this excuse is?
Assuming that really is what went wrong, what does it say about the business processes in place behind this twenty-first-century Internet-based system?

christillis

Roger Ramjet;10905031 wrote:
I'm in the same boat right now and I just don't know what to say. I get so frustrated that it makes me swear.:mad:

I feel your pain Roger Ramjet (I used to love that cartoon series when I were a kid!). I think most seniors like their own ideas, so stupidly a different strategy has to be used - make them think it's their idea! God knows how you do that!

Weedpacket;10905071 wrote:
I just heard a joyous bit of news (well, it was yesterday, but this thread just reminded me).

There's been a lot of carry-on about a new toll road in Auckland....

...twenty-first-century Internet-based system?[/list]

WP, that's really funny what happened in Auckland, made me chuckle!

Answer to 1. Completely inaccurate excuse - I imagine it's a script error or something!
Answer to 2. They were probably on a deadline and went live before testing - which I would guess is a business process!

stolzyboy

There are a ton of open source php/sql driven "job" tracking software programs out there for free versus having to develop something.

Most are customizable enough to make it work, especially for a small shop like yourself.

They wouldn't likely work for a company the size I work for, but that's neither here nor there.

NogDog

Just to play a bit of Devil's Advocate here....

While there are definitely many management types in all types of businesses who do not really understand what their "worker bees" really do; there is probably at least an equal percentage of "worker bees" who have no idea what is really involved in being a manager.

Unfortunately, it seems perhaps that in the IT industry more than most, many of the first-level and mid-level managers come from the "worker bee" ranks. Whether or not they were any good technically has little to do with how well they can manage. Most often they have no formal business management education and may or may not get a little basic training in management when they get promoted. It's sort of like college professors: they get their jobs for being good in their field, but are almost never required to take any education courses, so it's pretty much blind luck as to whether or not they are actually any good at teaching.

The Peter Principle lives!

Weedpacket

NogDog wrote:
Whether or not they were any good technically has little to do with how well they can manage.

If anything, the correlation is probably negative.

Eberhard is no longer suspicious. Now he is irked, which is worse. Like a lot of techies, he can become obstreperous when he decides that others are not being logical. Randy holds up his hands, palms out, in surrender.

"I stipulate that this does not make sense," Randy says.

Eb glares into the distance, not mollified.

"Will you agree with me that that world is full of irrational people, and crazy situations?"

"Jaaaa—" Eb says guardedly.

"If you and I are going to hack and get paid for it, people have to hire us, right?"

Eb considers it carefully. "Yes."

"That means dealing with those people, at some level, unpleasant as it may be. And accepting a whole lot of other nonsense, like lawyers and PR people and marketroids. And if you or I tried ot deal with them, we would go out of our minds. True?"

"Most likely, yes."

"It is good, then, that people like Avi and Beryl have come into existence, because they are our interface." An image from the Cold War comes into Randy's head. He reaches out with both hands and gropes in teh air. "Like those glove boxes that they use to handle plutonium. See?"

Eberhahrd nods. An encouraging sign.

"But that doesn't mean that it's going to be like programming computers. They can only filter and soften the irrational nature of the world beyond, so Avi and Beryl may still do things that seem a little crazy."

Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon

christillis

Hey stolz', you're quite right, there are plenty of scripts for it, but I don't know why - I just wanted to be in control really and do it from scratch to learn something on the way. I'm far from a control freak, but I do like to know that the script I read is understandable to me. Thanks though!

You're not wrong Nogdog, the higher ups area probably able to see the 'bigger picture' better than me - they might be thinking 'better the devil you know' theory with the old fashioned route, in fear of problems with a new system. I also think that a large percentage are 'mature' and therefore don't want to learn something new, even if it's entering text in a few browser fields and selecting click buttons.

Correct again, most of the employers here are not qualified to manage (so far as I know) and only competent at their specialised area.

So stuff, I've got a friend who may need a customised database system, so that's great!

stolzyboy

I understand, but for something rapid to get into place, if time is there big beef, it may be an option for you to at least get rid of those outstanding excel files for "tracking" jobs.

What is this, 1996?

christillis

Before I start, apologies for the odd typo in my previous post!

stolzyboy;10906024 wrote:
I understand, but for something rapid to get into place, if time is there big beef, it may be an option for you to at least get rid of those outstanding excel files for "tracking" jobs.

Well I've taken a stand, I'm now using notepad files to record my time spent on jobs - hopefully I'll be the most inefficient person here! 😃

stolzyboy;10906024 wrote:
What is this, 1996?

It would appear so, Micheal Jackson has even decided to go back on tour to enhance the '94 atmosphere lol 😃

Roger_Ramjet

christillis;10905415 wrote:
I also think that a large percentage are 'mature' and therefore don't want to learn something new, even if it's entering text in a few browser fields and selecting click buttons.

I beg your pardon! I am a mature individual, read grumpy old man, and that does not stop me from learning new things or looking for better ways to do any job. That is something I have done all of my life.

Youth has no monopoly on learning. On the contrary, these people you are complaining about were probably just as dumb when they were young.

I'm the oldest person where I work by far. Some of the people I was complaining about in my earlier post are in their 20s and they don't want to change either. Thing is, I've been round that block so many times I can get my own way without even trying. I don't have to manipulate them or the situation; just do my thing and deliver the goods and John will point out that it is a bad career move to resist.

You see, in the end business is all about the bottom line. All you have to do is to demonstrate how you can improve productivity or performance, or preferably both, and the people that matter will make it happen.