Down the rabbit hole.... sorry, just venting.

Joseph_Sliker

About a week ago I thought I was making good progress with starting to learn about javascript.

Then, I noticed that for some reason I can't get what seems like a very basic script result to display in Internet Explorer v.8 on an Windows XP machine (which is the required standard that we are required to use across our enterprise 'cause we don't have the resources to keep up with new stuff).

...so I am farting around with that (still no luck) for days and days.

NOW I find that a host server where I personally have a site (where I can test stuff to my heart's content without having to worry about destroying anything important at my job) is filling up error_logs with hundreds of thousands of K of pointless/unneeded error messages (caused, apparently by some incorrect configuration of php on the server). So I'm corresponding back and forth with the low-level support staff that thought they implemented a good solution...but did not.

...I'm so far from my new learning about javascript right now, I'm beginning to forget why the heck I even needed to learn about it in the first place. Arrrrrgh! 😕

Maybe I should leave all this programming stuff to programmers and get back to trying to learn to play piano.

NogDog

Well, to make a decent living at playing the piano, you have to be really good and pretty lucky, or pretty good and really lucky; while you you can make a decent living at programming if you're just pretty good. 😉

dalecosp

Hmm, I guess I'd second that. I have a music degree and was a piano major. I'd prefer to be playing piano, but my life hasn't been paid for by that; I never really tried, I guess, but I have considerations, like a family to support and build, small bit of farmland/real estate, and so on. To make a living as a musician you must be in a good market for that (generally a metro area) or teaching in a school system. I tried that latter 10 years, but got sick of the idiots that run those sorts of places.

NogDog

<-- Music Education degree (trumpet was my performance instrument) 🙂

bradgrafelman

Joseph Sliker;11028377 wrote:
Internet Explorer v.8 on an Windows XP machine (which is the required standard that we are required to use across our enterprise 'cause we don't have the resources to keep up with new stuff).

Hey now, let's be fair here... any "stuff" that came about after XP isn't "new" stuff, it's at the very least "current" stuff. Don't forget, XP already has a tombstone and final burial place all laid out for it. For example, mainstream support for Windows XP ended over 4 years ago (source).

Joseph Sliker;11028377 wrote:
NOW I find that a host server where I personally have a site (where I can test stuff to my heart's content without having to worry about destroying anything important at my job) is filling up error_logs with hundreds of thousands of K of pointless/unneeded error messages (caused, apparently by some incorrect configuration of php on the server). So I'm corresponding back and forth with the low-level support staff that thought they implemented a good solution...but did not.

I guess you should look at this as a great opportunity to learn a very relevant and important lesson: If you don't practice the art of vertical integration (i.e. learning how to install/configure/manage PHP and a webserver), then you'll always be at the mercy of others who: a) likely don't know about (or care?) about your specific needs, and b) have their own agenda/goals/priorities that may or may not align with your own.

(Granted, I'll also admit that such a situation isn't always avoidable; I have to deal with it in some form or another just about every single day here at work.)

NogDog;11028387 wrote:
<-- Music Education degree (trumpet was my performance instrument) 🙂

Now you're making me miss my jazz band days from high school.

NogDog

bradgrafelman;11028391 wrote:
...Now you're making me miss my jazz band days from high school.

Here you go: a little ditty in 7/4 we played in one of the college jazz bands (maybe not quite as well), around the same time as this performance by the composer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI9caeoZ_kM

Now, back to your regularly scheduled venting....

dalecosp

bradgrafelman;11028391 wrote:
(Granted, I'll also admit that such a situation isn't always avoidable; I have to deal with it in some form or another just about every single day here at work.)

'Tis life, I expect. With everyone hot-under-the-collar to go to the "cloud", it might get worse before it gets better; OTOH, hosting companies seem less reluctant to give you root if it's a hypervisor instead of a complete hardware box with a 5-minute reboot time.

I'm fairly fortunate that part of my hire-on discussion centered around moving some properties to a different platform; I got a say in it, and went with something I know quite a bit about (BSD on a virtual machine). So, I'm "boss" on those properties, and can solve most problems quickly.

With the "big" property, it's hosted on something they bought by analyzing marketing materials and reviews on the 'Net and so on. It's not terrible, but we do have to maintain good relations with a hosting company, and some of what Brad says about agendas and "specific needs" certainly rings with truth.

Now you're making me miss my jazz band days from high school.

Well, what do you spend your weekends on?

bradgrafelman

dalecosp;11028395 wrote:
Well, what do you spend your weekends on?

Newer hobbies/distractions I've picked up... mostly in the realm of aviation. 🙂

Joseph_Sliker

bradgrafelman;11028397 wrote:
Newer hobbies/distractions I've picked up... mostly in the realm of aviation. 🙂

Don't make me jealous. Got my private single engine land license about 25 years ago but shortly thereafter the kids started arriving and I had to make the choice between security for them or action/adventure for me. Once I see them ensconced in some kind of reasonable/regular employment here in Wisconsin (aka: Walker's Worker's Paradise...NOT!) I will look into seeing if what's left of my health will allow me to pass my Airman's medical again. Till then, I'll be trying to master the training-wheels version of "Black Velvet Band" and Tom Wait's "Invitation to the Blues".

Joseph_Sliker

I guess you should look at this as a great opportunity to learn a very relevant and important lesson.

Very true. But the stuff that I do is not terribly sophisticated and I try to keep it accessible to the folks with the most out of date computers/browsers out there.

NogDog

With IE 11 due out sometime later this year, I wonder if web solution contracts that say they'll support the current version and 2 versions back will no longer have to support IE 8, or if clients will decide they now have to change it to 3 versions back? 😉

Bonesnap

NogDog;11028403 wrote:
With IE 11 due out sometime later this year, I wonder if web solution contracts that say they'll support the current version and 2 versions back will no longer have to support IE 8, or if clients will decide they now have to change it to 3 versions back? 😉

The current contract for my work states we support browsers that regularly receive updates within the last 2 years. We're unfortunately going to have to deal with IE8 for a while unless my boss changes the wording in the contract, but given XP's continued market share, and therefore IE8's, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Even if IE11 was released tomorrow I don't think it would make much of a difference. We haven't experienced a single client so far who uses IE10. The best thing we can do for users who are still on XP, is to encourage them to use an alternate browser like Firefox or Chrome.

dalecosp

Perhaps we should pressure IE to take a Firefox-like update approach?

If only they hadn't integrated the thing so tightly with their OS.... 😉

Bonesnap

dalecosp;11028407 wrote:
Perhaps we should pressure IE to take a Firefox-like update approach?

If only they hadn't integrated the thing so tightly with their OS.... 😉

Many are speculating with Microsoft's "Windows Blue" update they are adopting an approach similar to that of Apple; incremental updates on a smaller time scale rather than a big update/upgrade every 3-4 years. Windows Blue has also been dubbed "Windows 8.1", which draws parallels to the numbering scheme of OSX. Whether this type of approach will increase updates to IE or not remains to be seen.

sneakyimp

I have to agree that there's a very strong case for ditching both Win XP and IE 8. I think that the silly management teams that establish these requirements are best approached when you explain to them that such support is costly and increasingly benefits only a small fraction of a typical internet audience. You might be better off trying to support mobile devices.

I'm delighted to hear about everyone's musical and/or aviation hobbies. I played guitar in a rock band as my primary vocation for about 5 years. We had a record distributed by V2 records and a song in a movie that was something of a cult hit. Sadly, most of that time coincided with the catastrophic failure of the music industry from 1999 onwards. I still manage to get some music in. Band rehearsal tonight at 6pm!

NogDog

Which reminds me, this is what I bought yesterday with a chunk of my annual bonus (which we didn't get until last Friday this year for assorted reasons):

Martin "Custom X Series" -- basically most of the stuff you love about a Martin acoustic guitar but with zero frills: absolutely no inlays or such (the bit of color around the sound hole appears to be a decal). At only(?) $500, sounds twice as good and plays at least 50% more easily than my Ovation Celebrity did at around $350. Now I'm in the process of building up my calluses again. 🙂

PS: I'm not even close to being as good a guitar player as I used to be on the trumpet -- it's just a hobby thing for my own personal entertainment.

sneakyimp

Excellent choice, NogDog! I was also fortunate enough last year to upgrade from my old Ovation to a Martin D-28 (left handed even!). It's amazing. And of course it would make sense that you abandon the trumpet because we all know that men with guitars are more attractive to women. Apparently you don't even have to be able to play it to gain the benefits of the added attractiveness.

As for the question of whether 'tis nobler to brave the outrageous slings and arrows of the music biz or the outrageous slings and arrows of the software biz, I feel it's important to point out that I could never afford the Martin when I was actually a musician, support of record labels notwithstanding. On the other hand, the romantic options available to a musician boggle the mind. It defies all logic. I just got married 3 weeks ago, so I've got no need for that romance mojo now. I suppose one's choice depends on where one's current priorities are.

dalecosp

sneakyimp;11028429 wrote:
Excellent choice, NogDog! I was also fortunate enough last year to upgrade from my old Ovation to a Martin D-28 (left handed even!). It's amazing. And of course it would make sense that you abandon the trumpet because we all know that men with guitars are more attractive to women. Apparently you don't even have to be able to play it to gain the benefits of the added attractiveness.

As for the question of whether 'tis nobler to brave the outrageous slings and arrows of the music biz or the outrageous slings and arrows of the software biz, I feel it's important to point out that I could never afford the Martin when I was actually a musician, support of record labels notwithstanding. On the other hand, the romantic options available to a musician boggle the mind. It defies all logic. I just got married 3 weeks ago, so I've got no need for that romance mojo now. I suppose one's choice depends on where one's current priorities are.

LOL, very interesting thoughts. No "options" for me: I'm married 25 years next Tuesday (don't expect to see me on here for at least a week and a half after Thursday, unless you're on the beach in Florida). I think my wife liked my keyboard playing, actually ... she was tired of buying "accompaniment tapes" ... but I went ahead and learned guitar to stay attractive 😃

And the guitar ... Sweet Martin! And I understand about needing to be a programmer to buy it. Even working for myself as a "consultant" I was making barely enough to keep myself in strings and cables and such. And my MIDI rig dated from '96 until last year (it's actually still under "reconstruction").

I've been thinking to buy me a nice guitar ... OTOH, I decided to keep the butter on the hot bread: she's getting one of these for her "silver" anniversary:

laserlight

Speaking of music: after having taken piano lessons as a kid and then abandoning the instrument, I started learning to play the shakuhachi, a Japanese end-blown flute traditionally made of bamboo, late last year. Funny thing is that these Japanese instruments have Chinese origins, but none my friends from Chinese orchestra back in school played a Chinese flute, from what I can remember.

sneakyimp

dalecosp;11028461 wrote:
LOL, very interesting thoughts. No "options" for me: I'm married 25 years next Tuesday (don't expect to see me on here for at least a week and a half after Thursday, unless you're on the beach in Florida). I think my wife liked my keyboard playing, actually ... she was tired of buying "accompaniment tapes" ... but I went ahead and learned guitar to stay attractive 😃

Congratulations! Have a blended boozy drink for me.

laserlight: i googled around for some shakuhachi music. Found some really pleasant, pensive sounds.