Forum functionality question

Anon

I want to integrate a forum in my future web site and wanted to know from forum users if they like the functionality of this forum or that of vBulletin. www.vbulletin.com ( This is not an advertisement because I have nothing to do with vBulletin other than I am thinking about buying it.)

To be specific, I find having to click open all the answers to threads on this forum to be a bit annoying. (Or is it a cheap way to get more impressions) vBulletin shows all answers to a thread at once which I find more ergonomic when it comes to trying to find certain information.

I've written Tim Perdue about this some time ago but never got an answer. So I'm asking you all, the community, what you think.

Anon

Scott, this is the stuff of which religious wars are made. My position, which of course is the correct one <grin>, is this:

Threaded forums such as Phorum are optimized for very short interactions, such as Q&A. Phorum is absolutely a good choice for PHPBuilder.com.
Linear forums are optimized for extended, continuous, focused interactions.

I've written a message board system (which you can see in action at http://stonemountain.yi.org) that implements the latter. I would not suggest that the test site is a great example of extended conversation; it's just a software test site.

If you want to see better examples, look at the Well, Salon.com, et cetera. I used to run a newspaper site in Minnesota that used linear discussion software and some of the topics there routinely accumulate as many as 4,000 messages in a single conversation.

My software, which is written in PHP4 and requires MySQL, is downloadable and covered by the GNU General Public License. You're welcome to grab a copy. It is in a state of development, but it is very stable and fairly full-featured. I do have plans for improvements, but the basic user and sysop tools are all there.

The feature set includes:

Integrated registration system with "last read" tracking. Users pick up conversations where they left off.
Folder/discussion metaphor to support good organizational practices in large discussion spaces.
Integrated look&feel customization through headers/footers that are stored in the database and easily editable by the sysop. Headers/footers can be applied to any discussion or folder, and inherited by all "child" discussions or folders.
User profile pages.
Integrated sysop tools for editing, deleting, moving messages; editing and deleting user accounts, etc.

I apologize for this sounding like a commercial; it is free software and I do think you should evaluate the many open-source options that are available to you before making a decision to go with a commercial alternative.

Anon

Interestingly enough, I've examined the vbulletin software, and used/toyed with it a bit.

It's a good BB; seemingly well written and not too hard to customize if you know enough PHP.

It works off MySQL, which is another definate plus. One problem is if you only have access to one MySQL database but unlimited tables (as many people do), VBB does set up quite a few tables which could cause a problem if you've already set up your own tables.

As far as buying it...ehh...I don't think I'd personally shell out my cash for it. There are so many alternatives, make sure to at least examine them and see if there's not one you like better.

VBB is like a UBB for PHP (acronym, anyone?).

But if your time is more valuable than the money spent on registering VBB, go with VBB. It does have good spamming protection and customizability, even through a non-programming "admin" interface.

As for threading, that does cause arguements doesn't it?

I'd agree with him point, 😉

If someone simply asks a question and wants an answer, this is the way to go.

Now if the message was more like:

"I've been considering upgrading my pages to XML compatability, if not totally going the XML route, and maybe adding WAP integration.

What do you guys think? Is handling XML with PHP a good idea?"

To which I'd diminish into a tyrade about companys that went to market with WAP phones the second they could, without revising their technical manuals or even examing the state of WML as a whole, should be drug out into the middle of the street and visciously beaten with the sharp edge of a mouse.

To which someone would reply that WAP is great, and someone would say PHP is perfect for XML, and then someone would say how it doesn't validate XML blah blah.

It would be quite annoying to click on different topics over and over again, not knowing which reply came first without examing the dates, especially if your conversation was 80 replys long.

There is one big problem with sticking them all together though. The individual reply format is far more forgiving to slow connections. Once you've read a reply, you don't need to load it again.

But in the one page version, you need to reload all the previous replys. Even in a thread of only 40 replys per page, if those replys are to a big discussion, your loading time is going to be horrid.

(I once, in only 4 messages, filled over 20 pages of content into a single thread page- all rant. even with DSL the load time was attrocious)

So there you go.

Caveat Emptoure...which I'm sure is spelled wrong, but you get the idea.

Anon

But in the one page version, you need to reload all the previous replys.<<

Oh, PLEASE tell me VBB doesn't work that way. Yikes. Linear discussion software should always give you a reasonable sliding window into the message stack.

I have a 10-message slice specified in my default configuration; I have intended to let users override that.

Anon

Wow...thanks for the great responses. I had hoped for more determined answers but oh well.

Quote: Threaded forums such as Phorum are optimized for very short interactions, such as Q&A. Phorum is absolutely a good choice for PHPBuilder.com. Unquote

It seems to me that, as steve pointed out, the problems the board tries to resolve determines the functionality of the board. Ok..I can agree with that.

But what if a question (thread) turns into a discussion, much like this thread. Clicking through the different answers is too much like watching soap operas. You look at one episode and then have to wait for the next to find out what's going on.

If a Forum is linear then it fullfills both needs. If the thread only needs one answer then it gets one answer. But if a thread becomes a discussion then it extends to a discussion.

I would like to quote Webster's Dictionary,

Quote:
fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n., pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (fôr, fr).

The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
A court of law; a tribunal.
Unquote

As you can see, the word "discussion" is mentioned three times.

I had a brainspasm and had the great idea of making some statistics to back my point up. The following stats are taken from the last 30 threads in this forum since 10.08.2000.

Number of threads with 1 answer= 9
Number of threads with more than 1 answer= 17
Number of threads with no answer= 4
Average number of answers per thread= ca. 2.5

As you can see the nonlinearity of this forum is not used to any great extent and a linear forum would better serve the users. I don't mean to be antagonistic but I think this site and the people that use it are great and have never
let me down when I was in need.

I hoped that I would get more support in the suggestion that PHPBuilder consider changing to a linear forum scheme. It can only enhance the site.

trickytiger

/\ Does he always answer himself? /\

Weedpacket

"Anon" is any poster who posted without registering prior to August 2002 (i.e., back when it was possible). That's why there are 65535 posts to the name.
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10306618