What is up with this site?

van__

SQL statements output everywhere!
And this is supposed to be a developers resource, yet the developers who develop it are so amatuer as to not even set up a mirrored production environment.

Don't know about you, but I'm a little disgusted by this.

hearn

I think you ought to realize that the, as you called them, "amateur" developers of this site have helped about a billion php developers make their sites better ten-fold. I'm not gonna complain because I know it'll be fixed soon. And just like everyone else, if a server has problems they don't know about it instantaneously. And if you're such a good programmer, you probly shouldn't be bitching about other people's sites but making money developing someone else's site.

van__

Actually, I do make very good money making other peoples sites. And I don't come here to learn, nor do I take your petty insults seriously since you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

This is EXTREMELY bad practice here.
And more than that, you are basically endorsing that as acceptable to newbies who come here to learn and to see this debacle of code mockery, is setting a horrible precedent for beginners to follow.

And yes, I stick by the developers here as being amateurs. All sites I create have a mirrored development server so that in the event of revisions or debugging, code may be tweaked and tested in privacy and without exposing the guts of the site to the world.

Hell, you really don't even have to mirror it, just use a god damned mail() funct!
Do we need to know all the table names for the DB? Is that professional? Use a brain cell.

theslinky

Hello all.

this is the first time I'm posting in the general forum. I've been in coding for a while (actually for a while about a year ago and back again for the past two weeks!)

First off: phpbuilder is perhaps the greatest site there is. It has the largest audience and yes Hearn: it had helped millions: including me, considering I was using php from when it was first released and have never asked anyone for help. I did pick up a few shorthands while I helped a few :-)

van: i too am appalled by the fact that phpbuilder is acting weird and yes: all of us gurus know this is bad practice, blah blah blah. But get real here: we're not paying these people to host this board. They are doing this for free and they can't sit on their asses behind a computer 24 hrs a day making sure everything is running smoothly. Maybe that's what you do all day at your work, but that's none of our business nor interest.

Although I believe internet.com should monitor their sites or at least revise and fix up old code once in a while, I do cut them some slack due to the fact that 1) the site is not completely disfunctional 2) we're still able to post and reply and 3) people have better things to do then nag about some sql queries popping up where they shouldn't be.

-sridhar

hearn

You're killin me here buddy, I'm not some damn @!#$ who judges every site because you need to do that to make yourself feel better, and I'm not endorsing a damn thing. I'm just stickin up for a site that does a hell of a job of providing excellent resources. Why don't you use your brain cells, I'm not here to take a damn conversation on the entire ethics of scripting and coding for websites using php...

hearn

Thank you sridhar.

van__

all of us gurus know bad practice, blah blah blah.

Well I'll tell you something guy. And listen up. If the majority of the websites out there where like this, the web would be dead. The dotcome/dot-gone thing would never have happened, you wouldn't have the luxury of doing what you're doing, because the technology wold have been so crap, no one would have wanted to do anything with it.

What you support by your statements is more crap code, more security breaches and more theft, piracy and exploitation throughout the web. You basically just said "I could care less, this is acceptable and fine by me."

And to that, I say get the hell out of web development now! we don't need people like you churning out more crap and putting us all at risk, my god I shudder to think that you may ever get a job at a website that might happen to have my credit card info on file or any one elses for that matter.
You are a liability and a risk and clearly could give a rats ass about the consiquences of such negligence nor the price others may have to pay as a result.

You're nothing but a cheap hack and obviously have no passion for craftsmanship, which is understandable of those who possess no skill.

theslinky

All right Van. If you feel we are all dumbasses and no-gooders just rotting the internet with our "crap", then all right... so be it.

i don't see you doing much to help with this problem: not even a little message like "if you idiots can't fix the board, can i help?".

just a piece of advice "buddy": don't show any of that attitude to others, especially your clients. It's not gonna get you anywhere except out of this board.

If you don't want to contibute anything to this site and just complain your ass off, go do it somewhere else. No matter how crappy the coding may be on this site, we don't need crappy people like you here just ruining it for the rest of us.

-sridhar

kinglouie

Okay, professional...

I suggest you give us some URLs of what you've done and we'll see if you did better.
How about that?

King Louie

hearn

The dotcome/dot-gone thing would never have happened

What the hell are you talking about? The dot com crash was the result of a market crash.

And... you have no right to say that "we don't need people like you". What kind of power trip are you on? Stop trying to cut people down and go work on some of that money-making business that you supposedly have.

van__

Read my daily resume posting at craigslist:
http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/frl/4701562.html

Need I say more?

van__

What I'm saying is that if people never trusted web services to be secure, it wouldn't have even gotten going.

I am not saying that developers are at fault for the crash... that's due to lavish block parties for all the startups in San Francisco c. '98-'00

theslinky

King,

I was just about to ask that as well! Let's build a denial-of-service hack to crash his site and say "people like you don't know jack about security" :-)... just kidding.

Van, I would definitely like to see some of your work as well. Do you treat your "not so techie/smart" customers like the way you treated Hearn?

And no: i'm not supporting phpbuilder's "crappy" code. All i'm saying is give it a rest. They will get around to it when they have the time. if they don't, we'll force them to, or use alternatives.

-sridhar

van__

I treated Hearn the way he treated me.
Or so I percieved.

I'll admit I'm a bit ticked at seeing what I see. And not just because it's SQL statments that are exposed, but mainly because this site is an educational forum and sets a very bad example, which I believe I've already stated several times as the main reasoning behind my being miffed.

Come after me all you want.
I stand where I stand.

theslinky

Actually Van, I think it sets a very GOOD example or a site gone wrong. People take phpbuilder to be a strong site with almost not flaws. When they see something like this error we're experiencing, it must surely lead them to think even the best-est (sorry for the grammer) site will have flaws if it's not maintained.

Newbies are not stupid: they know what works and what doesn't. And I don't think anyone learning PHP is intending to write code that is going to fail after a while. if something like this happens on a newbie's site (or a guru's for that matter), he/she is bound to find help to sort it out immediately.

But if that person is doing it as a "benefit-the-community" type of service, they'll probably fix it once they've taken care of their bigger priorities.

I don't think any of were angry of the fact that you pointed out those errors. I was angry because of you insulting the programmers (and the newbies/gurus/etc. here) and assuming we are just idiots who write crappy code.

And yes: i do respect people like you who take care to prevent code from failing, but you should respect the folks at phpbuilder who have helped us all (maybe not you) to write flawless code and optimize our scripts.

and besides: phpbuilder uses phorum. if at all you want to blame anyone, it shouldn't be phpbuilder.

what if your server all of a sudden crashed and displayed a kernel error. should we call you and say "you're setting a bad example for other designers"? it's not really your fault... although you could have kept an alternate server configure on your DNS in case one fails.

-sridhar

van__

Well, sorry if you took it that way.

But, the fact is, I've seen this stuff on corporate sites plenty of times.
So it's not that I'm shocked or appalled to see it at all, but feel that sites that exist to educate have a certain responsibility to play the role of mentor and lead by example.

Being a contractor puts me in a position where I see a lot of different peoples code.
And I will tell you here and now, that some of the stuff I see put into place is appalling, more so than here.

So, it's not just here, and no...
no one is perfect. I would never call my code perfect, even after spending months in production and revisions. I contantantly look for ways to improve and better secure the code.

It's a statement of fact that there is much crap code out there, probably more crap code than there is good code when it comes down to it.

And as I stated before, being a venue of education, this site should atleast practice some of the methods it preaches.

I come here quite often to assist others get better, because I enjoy that. It's a slap in my face when I walk in here and see practices that make me cringe.

Really though, I feel like why bother participating at a site that undermines my efforts to help by demonstrating such a bad example for those who are trying to emulate professionals?

hearn

Who ever said that you're a professional, and, you aren't giving any efforts to undermine, all you're doing is bitching, and that isn't very contructive on any level, "professional" or amateur. And if you have such a problem with this "amateur coded" website, then why don't you take yourself elsewhere, because you've without a doubt made yourself enough enemies here.

Anon

where's the Aloha? 😃

theslinky

Aloha!

Sorry if I offended anyone. I just felt I had to say something in the argument and may have gotten carried away and digressed from the topic... but hey, no matter how old and rusty this board may be, at lease it has helped tons. So how about this: if someone feels this board is "crap", they should devote a small part of their time in upgrading it. And no: it doesn't set a bad example for developers because it is not an example: it is used to share examples. Yeah a lot of corporate sites have crappy @!#$, but at least here it's tolerable. We're not talking about a dirty hospital here, just a very good board that was out for a few hours with people complaining about it :-)

-sridhar

hearn

Aloha, Hola and Salut to Surfah!

I also apologize to anyone that feels offended by anything that I've said on this site in the past day. I just feel that it needs to be defended when someone finds it necessary to post a direct hit on the site itself without emailing the admins and leaving it at that. Cheers to all!